I'm not sure if this has been discussed before but today I got to thinking that when The Master was shot at the end of Last of the Timelords the Doctor was demanding he regenerate, as we know he simply refused to do so.

How is this possible?

In old episodes of Dr Who the Doctor was often unconcious during the regeneration process which suggest that it is involuntary.

Yes I know it's only a TV show and I should not think about it too deeply but I am so I'm asking.

He probably couldn't because he was already human; his Timelord self is stored in the ring, rather like it was stored in the fob watch. Maybe...

I think this is what will happen when TM is re-introduced. however, to answer the OP question, regenration seemed to take different forms with different Time lords, it really depended on the shows producer and writer at the time. The doctor never seemed to have control of his regeneration, it happened when he was mortally injured/killed. But each of his regenerations differed. Then there's the whole Romana choosing her body issue, which just seemed to be added into Destiny of the Daleks for laughs.

We have actualy never seen the Master regenerate until the new series, in classic who and TVM we only so him 'snatch' bodies. So, it really gives the new writers the opportunity to let his regenerative abilities be invented as they go along

i asked this too (can't remember what thread it was) cos it puzzled me too-i didn't think a timelord had control over regenerating but i think as listentome said it really depends on the writer/producer at the time

also i think the ring might have something to do with it.....

RTD said himself it leaves the door open for future producers to bring The Master back if they so wish.

I asked the same thing some while back. Seemed like someone refusing to heal a cut.

Then again, the rules change so often I guess that's how these things work now. Seemed rather lame to me, though.

I assumed that it required massive force to will to stop the regenerative process. Regeneration is automatic but it maybe it can be stopped if the Time Lord really doesn't want to live and turns all the energy that would be used to regenerate into an effort to die. I think too that maybe the Master has more control over regeneration than the Doctor - he seemed to be able to choose to be young because the Doctor was. This would fit with Romana being able to choose her form too. Maybe some Time Lords can achieve control over it, others can't or haven't tried to. Of course, as I'm fairly sure the Master is alive, this is probably pointless speculation, but it's interesting all the same!

the Master is definitely alive. I think he insisted on dying o give the Doctor the false impression that he was wrong about him. The Doctor said the Master would never let himself be killed, then TM allows himself to 'die' in the doc's arms.

One thing I like about DT's Doctor is his gullability. He believes things. He has been proven wrong over and over about things he thought were certain ie: no more Timelords, the Racnos all dead, can't move between universes etc...so now he has almost become accustomed to being proven wrong, he accepts he was wrong about TM so easily, without question that he has been double-crossed. the Doctor should know better really, but has allowed his emotions to take control.

I think you're right about Ten's tendency to believe things he shouldn't. I think it's because, at this point (end of series 3), he's just so tired and empty. He's been alone for so long and everything has been taken from him. He's lost so much and I think that the reason he can believe the Master is dead is because, now, he half-expects to lose. He knows that everything he wants and cares about is taken from him; why should the Master be any different? He had that period of hope, when he was not alone and he allowed himself to be seduced into believing he could spend the rest of eternity with the Master, but when that was taken away from him, he had no difficulty believing it because I think he just thought "why not? why shouldn't I lose this too?"

I think the Ninth Doctor would have doubted it, would have looked for the Master's Plan B, but Ten just expects loss and accepts it when it occurs. He's just so broken at this point.

that is so sad

He's so alone and broken that he wants Earth to be his adoptive home and he wants to spend time in chav culture at Christmas so he feels he belongs. that's why he didn't want Martha around, her family were too posh

Romana II actually tries on a few different bodies, which suggests they have some control over it, but that when in mortal danger, I would imagine they have much less control.

So perhaps it's a bit of a battle of the wills. His body vs his mind.

Haha.. In my experience even the most hardened old-school DW fans are in uncomfortable denial over that scene.

I think he saw the next script/plot development and thought f**k this, I would rather die.......

Romana's regeneration could be explained by some Time Lords being able to control the process to a degree, though. It doesn't have to be seen as a problem.

Yeah and what is so unbelievable is that she would opt to regenerate into the drooling little runt that she did

Lol! I take it that most Time Lords wouldn't ever choose to regenerate unless they had to given it shaves off a a fraction of their life expectancy, but who's to say that they can't choose if and when to do it? Who's to say that what we've seen of regeneration isn't exclusive to the Doctor and that each Time Lord has their own set of rules?

I'd just put it down to The Masters Mind Power, if he can take over full bodies (Ainley, Roberts) with ease then surely he must have some powerful control over his own and be able to forcefully stop himself regenerating.

How's this;

The Master didn't refuse to regenerate - he couldn't. What if he'd used the Chameloeon Arch in the Tardis to transfer his Timelordyness to the ring, and was in fact a mere human at the end, albeit still with his memory intact?

His refusal to regenerate would then have been a cover for the fact that he was now human, and had anticipated the possibility of defeat by the Doctor (let's face it, if he looked back at his track record of Master Vs. Doctor encounters, it's probably 10-0 to the Doctor!)

So now we're left with the Doctor knowing that the Master is dead , and that he really is alone.

Sets the scene nicely for a surprise reveal;
"But - it can't be; you're dead!........(looks to current companion)........Run!"

And all this leads to my own pet theory;

I am of the opinion that John Simm will not be returning as The Master, being just a big-name special guest for S3.

The Master's "essence" is stored in his ring, which was removed from the funeral pyre.

Meanwhile, there is a handy timelord's forearm (sorry about that!) floating around in a glass jar.

My theory therefore is that the Master's Ring will somehow end up on the Doctor's severed hand and this convenient Timelord DNA will enable the Master to regenerate as an evil clone of the Doctor, with DT playing both roles.

Much fun will ensue as DT takes full advantage of the opportunity to chew the scenery in a dastardly fashion.

Now THAT I would love to see! Tennant v Tennant... or even in the future when DT has left the show, he could come back as The Master...

I've been looking at some of the artwork and design work done for the props for season 3 which are up on the BBC website, and I just noticed how the ring has the same circular Gallifreyan etching on the top of it as the fob watch had...

i thought it was the LazLabs logo on the ring?

It is, but on top of the circular pattern of the LazLabs logo there is the etching...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/doctorwho/galle..._2007/23.shtml

It looks kinda familiar to me...

ooooh-not seen that before, didn't realise it had etchings on the logo, that seals it then-he's in the bloody ring!!!

edit-my son has just seen it and wants one!!!

Definately think there is something in this.

Whose hand was it that picked up the ring? Mrs Saxon? In which case, did she shoot him deliberately?

Or perhaps it was Donna???