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Tiscali - BBC iPlayer could raise Broadband Prices
Rufus Londinii
13-08-2007
(Now, first of all, I do know that they are talking about access to the iPlayer via the PC/Web Portal as opposed to the IPTV method but it's interesting that Tiscali are making these comments now rather than trumpeting the benefits of the "Tiscali TV" service which would have been a logical response)

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/6944176.stm

Net firm warns on web video costs

The explosion in popularity of online video could lead to increases in the cost of broadband for UK consumers.
Internet services providers, such as Tiscali, say that the raft of recently launched on-demand services will "undoubtedly" congest the network.

Upgrades to the net could be needed to ensure services such as the BBC iPlayer continue to work properly, with costs passed on to the consumer, they say.

Alternatively, the ISPs say they would have to limit access to services.

One option that would allow them to do this would be to use so-called traffic shaping.

This involves delaying packets of information sent across the network until congestion has eased.

Tiscali already targets some of its customer's traffic using the technology.

"Peer to Peer traffic is the first to be affected at peak times making downloading slower but not limiting it with any caps," the company said in a statement. "iPlayer traffic would fall into this category, although at present would not be specifically targeted."

BT, which operates most of the net's infrastructure in the UK, said that it continually monitors network traffic and had not expressed any concerns about specific services such as the iPlayer.

Network jam

The last two years has seen a sudden boom in video traffic over the internet.

In addition to popular websites such as YouTube, there are an increasing number of on-demand services, such as 4oD, Joost and Babelgum, launched by traditional broadcasters and start-ups.

And unlike YouTube, the picture quality is much higher and the programmes longer.

According to Tiscali, this means that a BBC iPlayer programme, for example, is "at its minimum about 30 times as bandwidth hungry" as a YouTube video.

And it is this that is causing a headache for ISPs.

"Our position is that high bandwidth content services like iPlayer are being launched without proper attention to the cost of delivery," said Tiscali.

"As these services become more popular they will undoubtedly cause congestion. It is only broadband operators that can increase bandwidth and this comes at a cost."

The company is particularly concerned about the BBC iPlayer, which trial launched last month, as it is a free service that could "gain momentum quickly".

Market revolt

The BBC currently dominates the free-to-view content market with 80% of clips originating from the corporation, according to researchers Screen Digest.


This will fall to about 62% by 2011, as video content becomes more widely available from alternative sources such as Sky.

However, during the same time period, Screen Digest predicts the number of pieces of content viewed across the net will explode from 520.2 million to 2.3 billion.

A BBC spokesperson said: ""We are in regular discussions with the ISP's and together are monitoring the costs associated with video on-demand.

Analysts believe that ISPs have started to revolt about delivering net video because of the fickle European broadband market and because publishers are effectively transferring their distribution costs on to the ISP.

Ian Fogg, an analyst at JupiterResearch, wrote on his blog: "If ISPs had healthy margins for broadband, this wouldn't matter anything like as much. But European consumers are highly price sensitive on broadband access, so ISP margins are poor."

In addition, he said, most large ISPs have launched their own TV services.

"These internet delivered TV offers both push up ISPs' bandwidth and network costs, and they potentially undermine the ISPs' own TV services. So ISPs vocally use the issue of higher costs, while ISPs are also concerned about revenue protection for their TV services."

Tiscali have called for greater discussion about the topic before "it becomes an issue."
Peter We
14-08-2007
This won't affect Tiscali TV in any way.
ajnicho
14-08-2007
Then broadband companies in the UK need to have a serious look at themselves and realise that this is the thing of the future.

They need to stop complaining, pump some cash in to an already dire network and give us a decent service! Its 2007 for crying out loud!
Rufus Londinii
14-08-2007
Originally Posted by Peter We:
“This won't affect Tiscali TV in any way.”

I disagree. If Tiscali are putting this forward as an issue then it could impact in 2 ways.

1) Tiscali looking for reasons to increase prices/tighten traffic shaping.

2) Any funds Tiscali do have will be prioritised towards bringing the basic network up to speed - meaning the advances we have been waiting for since last year (PVR, HD, Interactive etc) get pushed back even further.

As I said, it's interesting that Tiscali haven't taken the opportunity to push the Tiscali TV Service as an alternative method (though maybe they have and it's just the BBC which has ignored it...)
Peter We
14-08-2007
Rufus, HC/Tiscali TV don't use anything like iPlayer to distribute their TV channels. Its sent to the exchanges and stored/ distributed from there.

It may affect Tiscali ISP customers but it has nothing to do with Tiscali TV customers.

You can't jump to any conclusion of what affect this will on Tiscali's service, there is no connection.
M_at
14-08-2007
Tiscali TV customers are also Tiscali ISP customers remember.

It will have an affect on the internet provision side of the TV service but I do agre that it will not have much of an affect on the TV provision.
BBRealist
14-08-2007
Tiscali are the ISP that throttles the crap out of customers for daring to download 350MB in a week during peak times on their horrifically cheap and nasty excuse for an ISP service.... which shouldn't affect former HC people hopefully so all is good
mbear
14-08-2007
It's all about LLU

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2007/08..._isp_analysis/
M_at
15-08-2007
Originally Posted by BBRealist:
“Tiscali are the ISP that throttles the crap out of customers for daring to download 350MB in a week during peak times on their horrifically cheap and nasty excuse for an ISP service.... which shouldn't affect former HC people hopefully so all is good ”

Sorry BBRealist but it's time to drop the rose tinted glasses. Tiscali are not going to maintain the network for us ex Homechoice networks as a totally speperate system for long.

They have already changed the provision of connectivity from Level 3 to their own network. As they start to pay attention to the customers rather than the possibilities in the business some users may find that their internet connectivity is throttled or monitored as they do for toher customers.
Peter We
15-08-2007
Ok, another excuse to BASH the HC/Tiscali TV service based on a completely unrelated piece of technology and certain posters bias.

No Tiscali TV customers would need to use iPlayer. So why something that isn't used affect the service's price? why?

Please spare me the biased opinions about 'because Tiscali are crap therefore this will happen'.
M_at
15-08-2007
Why would Tiscali TV customer not need to use the iPlayer?

Do we have it confirmed that all iPlayer content is available on replay? Is it around for as long? Does it provide the ability to view programmes away from your main internet connection?

There are plenty of reasons why TiscaliTV customers will end up also being iPlayer customers at the moment.
dronkula
15-08-2007
To be honest, if I was wearing my 'cynical' hat, I'd think that this is just Tiscali having sour grapes because as the BBC roll out these services, it reduces the exclusive benefits Tiscali TV customers get from their own services.

The BBC are also now live streaming News 24 and BBC Parliament. I would suspect this is just the start and once they've sorted out the bugs in that service, and any contractual issues with it, they'll start live streaming their other channels as well.

Add to that that ITV have already started live streaming of their channels on their website (although they can't show all their programme yet because of contracts), and with C4 and five also offering (for a price) complete downloads of most of their programmes, it starts to make 'traditional' TV subscription services (Cable, Sky, Tiscali) worth that little bit less. Of course, the quality at the moment (at least from the live streaming channels) is terrible compared to traditional TV, but they've only just started offering them and I suspect quality will improve over time.

With Digital switchover round the corner, why bother switching if you can get all the TV you want, from official sources (as opposed to downloading it illegal from the US etc) via your computer and internet connection?

Tiscali are stretching themselves a lot at the moment with the international rollout in the UK and Italy, buying Pipex and upgrading for HD/PVR services. If they think that they might get some compensation from the BBC for this to help pay for it all, you can't really criticise them for trying.

And if the BBC don't budge (which, to be honest, is probably what will happen) then Tiscali will have an excuse later on if they do need to introduce stricter traffic shaping by saying 'Well, we did warn the BBC, but no one listened to us!'.
DrinkingBuddy
15-08-2007
Does sound somewhat like coming up with excuses to control traffic over the'e network. After all quote from BT says:

"BT, which operates most of the net's infrastructure in the UK, said that it continually monitors network traffic and had not expressed any concerns about specific services such as the iPlayer." [http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/6944176.stm]

and if Tiscalli can use their network to send streaming TV down (albeit in a nicely controlled manner) there is no reason they should not be able to cope with this sort of traffic (I know they split and protect sections before anyone jumps on me, but that's just an issue with controlling delivery quality which is not their concern with the iPlayer) especially if BT don't have an issue.
Peter We
16-08-2007
Originally Posted by M_at:
“Why would Tiscali TV customer not need to use the iPlayer?

Do we have it confirmed that all iPlayer content is available on replay? Is it around for as long? Does it provide the ability to view programmes away from your main internet connection?

There are plenty of reasons why TiscaliTV customers will end up also being iPlayer customers at the moment.”

It will be identical to what is available on replay. The BBC promises to provide everything it can to all broadcasters. The iPlayer is attempt to match what it gives to Tiscali TV to ISP's that don't have Tiscali's network.

The iPlayer is an attempt to replicate Tiscali TV's BBC replay service, with obvious disadvantages/advantages.
Technix
16-08-2007
Originally Posted by Peter We:
“It will be identical to what is available on replay. The BBC promises to provide everything it can to all broadcasters. The iPlayer is attempt to match what it gives to Tiscali TV to ISP's that don't have Tiscali's network.

The iPlayer is an attempt to replicate Tiscali TV's BBC replay service, with obvious disadvantages/advantages.”

There's less than 50 hours worth of programmes currently through the BBC catch up services on Tiscali, VM.
The iPlayer will expand programmes available to about 500 hrs, thats why VM are eager to add the new iPlayer service on their cable TV service from later on this year.
DrinkingBuddy
16-08-2007
Originally Posted by Peter We:
“It will be identical to what is available on replay. The BBC promises to provide everything it can to all broadcasters. The iPlayer is attempt to match what it gives to Tiscali TV to ISP's that don't have Tiscali's network.

The iPlayer is an attempt to replicate Tiscali TV's BBC replay service, with obvious disadvantages/advantages.”

This is not correct. Even if the amount of content were the same (which I understand it is not) you get a far larger window in which to watch content through the iPlayer. You only get 7 days to download it, but your get 30 days to watch it. Replay you have to watch it within 7.

Add to this the fact that Replay programs are sometimes not recorded (rare I know but it does happen) and as has already been mentioned the option of watching this on different devices, particularly useful if wanting to watch whilst travelling, means that there is a good reason indeed for Tiscalli customers to want this service.
captaincaveman
16-08-2007
Exactly, I'm a Tiscali customer (ex-Homechoice) and I have already used iPlayer to watch programmes that have expired on the Tiscali replay service.
Peter We
17-08-2007
Originally Posted by Technix:
“There's less than 50 hours worth of programmes currently through the BBC catch up services on Tiscali, VM.
The iPlayer will expand programmes available to about 500 hrs, thats why VM are eager to add the new iPlayer service on their cable TV service from later on this year.”

Aren't Tiscali TV doing the same?
Technix
17-08-2007
Originally Posted by Peter We:
“Aren't Tiscali TV doing the same?”

It's only VM who have signed up for iPlayer on TV so far.
crane grove
17-08-2007
surely the current system tiscali have with old shows on c1 and replay is a version of the iplayer, just without the name.
M_at
17-08-2007
Not at all.

VOD on Tiscali is a client - server based system which hosts all content at the service provider and streams data in real time to a set top box.

iPlayer is a peer to peer system which has a master content location and the ability for downloaders of that content to also provide it to other users requesting the same files. Content is stored at the end user location and can be replayed over and over again without re-transmission and for a pre-determined period of time.

iPlayer uses public internet capacity and duplicates alot of transmission. TiscaliTV VOD uses a private network scaled to suit the number of subscribers and technologies designed to minimize the amount of data transmitted.
captaincaveman
17-08-2007
And, importantly, iPlayer makes content portable. Download what I want on to my laptop and can take it on the road with me so to speak. lovely stuff. there is definitely a place for iPlayer for a lot of Tiscali customers.
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