Ian - you've still to back this up with anything other than speculation. Others, with a great deal more knowledge than you go to great pains to make things as clear as possible, and all you do is try your best to court controversy.

And incidentally, this is a Freeview issue, not Topfield.

Glen.

Not at all. The news article and impetus to develop HDTV is clear. It borders a Freeview/Topfield issue in so far as people will want to know if the Toppy is HDTV compatable when making a purchase decision, or whether another model is imminent. They are likely to come to a Toppy forum, rather than a Freeview forum, to research their prospective purchase choice.

Where is the space going to come from on Freeview? Are they going to kick out a dozen channels? Or maybe they are going to magic up another MUX or two.
No space - no HD (apart from a possible overnight stream), at least until 2012.

Aunty Beeb will find a way. They are very resourceful. Everyone will say "Of course - I hadn't thought about that".

If/when it gets going, HD on DTT will not be a compulsory service, for many many years it will run alongside the existing SD services. Certainly in my mind it will be a long time before SD services are phased out. So to that end the existing Toppy would run alongside any modified HD Toppy.

It's the same in Canada. But everyone feels hard done by if they can't access the HD movie channels and have to access the standard ones instead. Hence, everyone bought a HDTV in double-quick time. The SD service still runs, but nobody cares and nobody wants SD any more. I'd say this is even more relevant to prospective and current Topfield users, since they are usually looking for the 'best' in terms of performance and quality; I can't see your average prospective Toppy purchaser wanting to waste time with SD after HD is out, even if it's a limited service.

Apart from the fact that for a long time to come, the vast majority of broadcast material will still be SD-sourced (all the more so for archive programmes and channels). Allied to the fact that the broadcasters will still be broadcasting the existing SD services on DTT.

I reckon that it will remain a niche product for a long time, especially amongst the digital refuseniks who have steadfastly refused to spend even £40 on a set top box to go digital.

Oh no - what with the football neanderthals wanting to see their heroes' shoelaces, when HD on DTT starts, there will be an explosion of those taking it up.

Even if it is a niche market, it will be filled by the type of person who might consider buying a Toppy. They are willing to pay much more than £40, but want to know they're getting the best.

Channel 4 Launching HD in December

http://www.digitalspy.co.uk/digitalt...-december.html

In most other territories, there are plenty of other reasons for increased penetration of HD, such as using inferior technical standards like NTSC for analogue, and that HD services are the first digital services - hence, even with a reasonable number of analogue channels, there's still been space to launch HD.

There's not the added complication of spectrum already in use for SD digital services, and a potential requirement for people to upgrade equipment they bought in the last few years to receive SD DTT. Additionally, cable penetration is much, much higher, relieving the pressure on terrestrial broadcast spectrum.

I don't know how many times you need to be told that just because something happened in Canada it doesn't follow that you can misinterpret information about the UK to fit a Canadian model.

There is not the spectrum for all the channels to make a rapid move to HD in the UK. The BBC has outlined how they might be able to do something with their current spectrum, before switchoff. And that something is a four hour overnight service, with a possible extension as switchoff proceeds, as you'd know if you read the submissions to the Trust.

They are keen to launch a service; if there were a way in which they could find space, they'd have included it in their PVT submissions to the Trust and to Ofcom - not least because making space by curtailing other services would require the consideration of that change as part of the PVT.

That's why some of the responses at this stage specifically mention the knock-on effect upon BBC Parliament, and the need to consider the undertakings given with regard to that channel.

If they were, say, to decide that they could do it if only they closed BBC3 or BBC4 (or both) permanently to free up bandwidth, that too would be a factor in the PVT submission, because the Trust would have to weigh up the loss of those, compared to the value of an HD channel.

That such a proposal is not part of the PVT submission is a pretty clear indication that they won't be doing it.

Bandwidth constraints mean that they can only do what they have said they'll do in the PVT documents. They can't suddenly pull a technical rabbit out of their hats with a thrilling new way of broadcasting HD, because that would be subject to Ofcom approval - not to mention making things take even longer to launch.

If they don't use MPEG4/AVC, or decide to use dual polarisation (a not extensively tested idea at present), then they'd be requiring makers to come up with UK-specific kit too, slowing the whole thing down. Remember that even for MPEG4/AVC they had to run a trial to test things; they'd have to go through the whole thing again if they decided to deploy a brand new transmission system like MIMO or dual polarisation.

And, finally, of course this is more a Freeview issue than a Toppy one; it affects the Topfield models precisely as much as it affects any others, whether they're by Humax, TVonics, Wharedale, Thomson, Sony or anyone else.

No matter how much you try to paint HD as some unique threat to Topfield, you are wrong.

And no matter how much you try to read things into the PVT submissions and the initial responses, based on something you think you saw on a brief trip to Canada, you are wrong.

There is no firm go-ahead for HD on terrestrial yet. And there is no bandwidth to do any more than the BBC has proposed in their submissions to the Trust and to Ofcom, nor could they launch a service using a new technology without that first being subject to approval by the Trust and Ofcom.

Yes, Channel 4 is launching a service on Sky's HD platform. There's not a single word in the press release, or that I can spot elsewhere on Channel 4's Press Extranet, about broadcasting on the DTT platform.

It is solely an announcement about them adding an HD channel to the Sky EPG - it doesn't even talk about availability on the Freesat platform. And, frankly, by the looks of it, their main concern is simply that they get it there before anyone else.

It makes absolutely no difference to the prospect of HD on terrestrial, because as we know, there is not the capacity at present to provide HD streams.

OK that is the "funny" answer. Now, as you are the one that is so obviously in the know with your claims that it is imminent - now give a serious answer as to where the space is coming from.

So not only do you suddenly find space for BBC HD service, you have now found space for Setanta, ITV, and Sky on DTT. Amazing, more magic? Or more rubbish!!!

"build it and they will come"

So, you have no idea of where the bandwidth will come from, little grasp of the technicalities, and not much of an understanding of the regulatory process.

But you still reckon there'll be lots of HD on Freeview within a few months...

I agree that there are a few hoops to jump through. But where there's a will, there's a way.

That market sector is already willing to pay for HD on Satellite. They do not even watch Freeview anyway.

I think there are a lot of sub-prime borrowers who will leap at HD on DTT.

especially if there is a free pvr to record it on

...from another thread on DS.

...from another thread on DS.

An HD service has been proposed for satellite, cable, Freeview and the internet...

...A four-hour service could launch "almost immediately" on Freeview...

...Viewers would need to buy a new set-top box to receive the channel - but, because of proposed changes in the way Freeview is broadcast, they may have to upgrade their equipment again when the full, nine-hour service becomes available...

...A trial of the system using Freeview boxes in November 2006 was deemed "a success" by four major broadcasters...

http://newsvote.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/enter...nt/7012276.stm

And do you know what "amost immediately" means?

Perhaps if you look at the actual press release from the BBC Trust, you'll see that what they've actually said is that they're not going to think about this until after Ofcom's finished the spectrum review in the early part of next year and that, at present, they think it's best to wait until 2009 (and the details of the report suggest it's later in 2009). So, not quite the "green for go go go":


If they decide not to wait, if lots of people say "Hey, we'll be happy to buy a box that will be obsolete in another year" they're still very likely to end up on their original timetable, which is the middle of next year.

And, as pointed out in the detailed report, while the BBC could do that, no one else has the space.

So, just how many manufacturers will be rushing to release a box for the UK market, for one channel broadcasting 4 hours overnight, which will be obsolete a year or so later, when they'll need to launch a new box for DVB-T2?

That press release just sees to confirm what everyone else has been saying, Freeview HD is on it's way but it's a long way down the road yet.
By the time a system is up and runing my Toppy will be long in the tooth.
None so blind as those who will not see.

CJL gives you some idea of the cost to the manufacturer.