I wasn't familiar with this word 'Pikey' so perhaps MPW genuinely didn't know and was purely using alliteration.

This pretty much sums up Marco's behaviour in my point of view.

Very disappointed with Marco.

get jim out the mans a control freak

Just a proof that Davidson is just a little man that being given a bit of "authority" can't get his own head up his arse quick enough! Pathetic man!

I thought Lee explained to him calmly and reasonably why he did not want him to use that expression and White should have been man enough to appolegise.

I applaud Lee for going and not staying with that ignorant bully.

I agree with this! Lee didn't raise his voice and just wanted Marco to not use that particular word!

And what is a "p...... 's picnic anyway????

Just watched this and didn't think Lee came out of it very well.
I think that he was still hurting from the conflict with Jim and Marco earlier, and was trying to find any issue to pick a fight with, so he brought up some trivial argument to 'challenge' Marco.
Marco could see right through it.

Lee doesn't seem to understand that there is a hierarchy in a kitchen for a reason, and you have to respect whoever is made team leader, even if you don't agree with them.

Anyway, he's yesterdays news now.

Well done Lee for having the guts to raise the issue, the tolerance to wait until the comment had been made twice, and the discretion to address it away from the rest of the group.
MPW showed himself up by being unable to muster the decency to agree not to continue using the term, imo.
I bet his Mum is really proud of him.

Still doesn't even come close to making up for his infamous 9/11 comment.

He is an idiot.

I think he'd had enough and was looking for an excuse to go. He was already bitching and complaining about wearing his hat and and small cuts and burns that everyone gets on their hands in a busy restaurant kitchen. By going this way he thinks he's got the moral high ground.

I think he looked like a bit of a numpty. I feel sorry for Brian though.

I dont know whether she is, but I agree, he was right to point out how offensive it is to proper gypsies.

I'm amazed so many people have never heard the term, but maybe it's more a rural thing. I know our local travellers and Romany's find it very offensive. (they aren't the same as those who cause havoc in rural areas by squatting on land and turning it into a slum).
So kudos to Lee. I loathed him before his encounter with Marco, but he definitely went up in my estimation after that.

Whether it's enough not to still think he's an idiot the rest of the time is another matter.

In London the term Pikey tends to refer to the squatter/thief type of Pikey.
Not the true Romany

Pikey is about as offensive as the word chav.

And that might be fine in a cooking situation, and Lee had already admitted he'd done wrong, and apologised, and considered it water under the bridge. However, regardless of where you are in the cooking hierarchy, you should still treat others with respect, and Lee has just as much right as anyone else to say when he finds something offensive. It's also worth remembering that it isn't just about kitchen banter. They are making a tv show that is screened in living rooms across the country. That's the reason Emily, a daft, ignorant 19 year old, was chucked out of Big Brother, with front page headlines to match, when she didn't think she'd done anything wrong either. I know the term isn't as offensive, but I wonder what would have happened if an unknown contestant on any other reality tv show had said something similar, and another contestant challenged them on it?

Lee wasn't making a big show of things, he was surprisingly measured when he approached Marco, and I'm sure if he'd said that he didn't agree that it was offensive, and he was using it in the original sense etc, and then they could have agreed to disagree. Instead, Marco tried to humiliate Lee by making out he and all of his gypsy friends must be stupid if they think it's an offensive term, or that he was making it all up just to spite him.

Moving away from whether or not the term "pikey" is offensive, apart from the alliteration, what was the point in raising a "pikey picnic" in the first place? He was making some kind of irrelevant generalisation about gypsies, not once, but twice.

I think it's telling that Marco admires Jim Davidson so much, and his great, great admiration for Maggie Thatcher was a bit chilling too.

Agreed.
I prefer the term Hedge Monkey,when I wish to be offensive.

[quote=*Sparkle*;17909779]what was the point in raising a "pikey picnic" in the first place? He was making some kind of irrelevant generalisation about gypsies, not once, but twice.
QUOTE]

It was used just like the phrase "looked like a dogs dinner"
About how the food was presented badly..
I've never heard of a Pikeys Picnic before, but it's easy to work out what it means as gypsies or tramps aren't exactly renowned for their cleanliness, it's certainly not 'racist'

Genuinely getting upset over that showed a distinct lack of a sense of humour, but more likely it was just some random issue to 'make a stand' against Marco, and play up to the camera..

[quote=Kenko2000;17915968]

I dont know Lee's background. Maybe he is related to gypsies or has friends who are. As he said to Marco they find that term offensive, so Marco should respect that should have apologised for using it.

=============

I agree with much of that. (I have no views to express on Lee's intelligence, but I think his principles were spot on here).

I wonder what the reaction would have been had MPW used the equally alliterative (and, arguably, equally offensive) phrase "'n-words' night out"?

It the same idea, expressed with alliteration, using different words.

Is there any difference? If so, why?

Deleted
Last edited by washboard : 08-09-2007 at 00:45

[quote=Kenko2000;17915968

<<snip>>

gypsies or tramps aren't exactly renowned for their cleanliness, it's certainly not 'racist'

[/QUOTE]


It's not racist to say that everyone in an ethnic group isn't clean?


I'm interested to know how you would then define 'racism'?

Seeing as the term Pikey can refer to Gypsies,Tramps,Tinkers and Underclass Chavs
Ethnicity isn't at question,It's just a generic term of abuse.

Also as the word Pikey hasn't got a dictionary definition
The nearest that can be achieved is an urban dictionary definition
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=pikey

==========

Assuming that your analysis is true, do you feel that a term of abuse is acceptable?


If so, why?

A term of abuse is exactly that.
What you consider acceptable is entirely personal opinion.

Exactly.

I asked you if you felt that a term of abuse was acceptable.

(I agree with you that "What you consider acceptable is entirely personal opinion")

So, in your personal opinion, is a term of abuse acceptable?

(If so, which term(s) of abuse, and why?)

I know exactly what this Big hairy bully chef person is doing. Did you not notice in the first episode when only shook hands with , Paul, Barry, Jim and Anneka, (all from his era), then ridiculed the rest by saying it wasn't necessary to shake hands? he had made his mind up there and then.

Next episode he said the words "please respect me" , shame he didn't follow his own words when he first met them

At least Gordon Ramsay treated them all the same,but this numbnuts has no idea.