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UK to ban plasma TVs?
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JohnX1
09-09-2007
"The Conservatives are to propose banning plasma screens and other energy-guzzling electrical goods."

"Some 2 per cent of Britain's total electricity use is currently taken up by appliances left on stand-by rather than being switched off."

Really? Stand-by modes use that much juice?

http://www.channel4.com/news/article...screens/781347
Elojikal
09-09-2007
Most plasama TVs have similar levels of power consumption to LCD TVs these days anyway.

And when a lot of devices going into standby they're not really switched off or even powered down, they just cut the video and audio output. So there is a lot of room for improvement.
ntlhellworld
09-09-2007
Two percent of power is pathetic and not even worth saving.

Some cable / satellite / DTT boxes use the same amount of power whether they are in standby or not (thats 100% waste) !! With everyone supposed to be migrating to digital, they are (or will be) a far bigger problem.

As for this: "The group will also suggest scrapping Gross Domestic Product (GDP) as a measure of the nation's success in favour of a model that measures people's happiness drawn up up by Friends of the Earth."

ARGH. David Cameron is such a tw*t. Can someone please tell this clown which party he is the leader of ...

-Chris
dunscombe2000
09-09-2007
Banning a specific technology would be difficult. These companies have invested billions in developement.

There is'nt any evidence that tax/law can change human behavoir anyway. People will always find a way around it.

The radical change that is needed is not even being talked about. It's just too scarey.
Elojikal
09-09-2007
Originally Posted by ntlhellworld:
“Two percent of power is pathetic and not even worth saving.”

In the words of Tescos, every little counts - and to use another cliche, it all adds up.
JBlink
09-09-2007
I don't have a plasma TV. I have a couple of LCDs (and some CRTs). If someone like Cameron or Brown tells me I cannot have a plasma the first thing I'll do is go and buy one. If I am then forced to switch it off rather than leave it on standby I'll leave a lightbulb on all the time just to spite them!

It is not that I am not concerned about the environment. It is that I just wish the politicians would focus on the bigger issues like getting the USA and China to reduce energy consumption and pollution rather than picking on the soft targets like the silent majority of Joe Public in the UK .
dtr TV expert
09-09-2007
Cameron should focus on how we produce electricity first, then complain and how much we are wasting.
daveindam
09-09-2007
Originally Posted by JBlink:
“I don't have a plasma TV. I have a couple of LCDs (and some CRTs). If someone like Cameron or Brown tells me I cannot have a plasma the first thing I'll do is go and buy one. If I am then forced to switch it off rather than leave it on standby I'll leave a lightbulb on all the time just to spite them!

It is not that I am not concerned about the environment. It is that I just wish the politicians would focus on the bigger issues like getting the USA and China to reduce energy consumption and pollution rather than picking on the soft targets like the silent majority of Joe Public in the UK .”

What a sad and pathetic fool you are!!
daveyhairbear
09-09-2007
Originally Posted by ntlhellworld:
“Two percent of power is pathetic and not even worth saving.”

Idiot.
ntlhellworld
09-09-2007
Originally Posted by daveyhairbear:
“Idiot.”

Bleeding liberal Clearly you are the idiot here.

David Cameron is simply a waste of time. Bringing in a law to save 2 per cent IS pathetic, for starters the national grid lose 8% of energy as heat from the cables !

If David Cameron brought in a law to ban non-energy saving lightbulbs, the UK would save 25% power (Thats more than the amount produced by all of the UKs nuclear power plants added together).

-Chris
ianflo
09-09-2007
Originally Posted by dunscombe2000:
“Banning a specific technology would be difficult. These companies have invested billions in developement.

There is'nt any evidence that tax/law can change human behavoir anyway. People will always find a way around it.

The radical change that is needed is not even being talked about. It's just too scarey.”

I disagree, tax breaks on energy efficient equipment will increase uptake of their use. As energy prices increase people will naturally migrate to more efficient appliances- giving incentives will hasten uptake - saving power, money, and hopefully be kinder to the environment.

Targeting high use appliances will add up to bigger savings and lower power useage. Aiming at tv's first misses the fact that washing machines and fridgefreezers are bigger power guzzlers than an lcd or plasma screen. However all bits add up eventually.

A european standard on standby power consumption would be easier to implement and more effective than the UK going it alone.

Tax breaks on alternative energy fuels/systems and low carbon emission technology would be a necessity as well. The oil will run out eventually and everyone moving to Nuclear is not an option as everyone will then start fighting over uranium deposits (a finite resource) but we're straying into politics now and away from home technology devices.

Lets have common sense and not more reactionary politics interfering in home life.
JBlink
09-09-2007
Originally Posted by daveindam:
“What a sad and pathetic fool you are!!”

I love how easy it is to wind some people up! Go light a joss stick. Ever heard of tongue in cheek?
Nigel Goodwin
09-09-2007
Originally Posted by Elojikal:
“Most plasama TVs have similar levels of power consumption to LCD TVs these days anyway.
”

A fallacy put about by the Plasma lovers, Plasma still takes considerably more power than LCD!.

Quote:
“
And when a lot of devices going into standby they're not really switched off or even powered down, they just cut the video and audio output. So there is a lot of room for improvement.”

You're really only talking about Sky boxes, most gear - and particularly TV's - drastically reduce power in standby. There are specific EU regulations about standby in TV's - so the standby consumption of modern TV's is VERY, VERY, low - including Plasma and LCD.
DocumentaryFan
09-09-2007
Could the UK even ban plasma TVs if it wanted to? Isn't this a EU matter? After all, any Briton can buy a TV set anywhere in the EU and take it home without having to go through customs. Since the EU is a single market, I don't think any single country could (or be allowed to) just ban a domestic-use technology like that.
kingdavera
09-09-2007
I remember there being talk (possibly from the EU - please, no trolling) of basically banning standby modes completely. All power would be a hard switch, and nothing else.

Now, that's fine for most kit (and I'd support it), but it really doesn't work for PVRs and the like, as they NEED to be on standby. I understand that some, like Sky+, doesn't really go into standby at all - it simply blanks the scart outputs. I'm sure it could be designed to shut down most of the system apart from a simple system to wake it up when it needed to do something. Then again, it probably adds complexity and cost.

I've never understood why LCDs and Plasmas do suck so much power though. They seem to waste so much as heat too. It's relatively early days for those technologies though, so I'm sure over the coming years, these things will change.
Elojikal
10-09-2007
Originally Posted by kingdavera:
“I understand that some, like Sky+, doesn't really go into standby at all - it simply blanks the scart outputs. I'm sure it could be designed to shut down most of the system apart from a simple system to wake it up when it needed to do something. Then again, it probably adds complexity and cost.”

It shouldn't add much in the way of cost, although the designers of such devices probably think that the end users would get fed up of having to experience the sorts of bootup times that these devices require once or even twice a day.
Scotty_B
10-09-2007
Originally Posted by kingdavera:
“I remember there being talk (possibly from the EU - please, no trolling) of basically banning standby modes completely. All power would be a hard switch, and nothing else.”

Which would have the effect of making people leave the telly on on a channel with no signal displaying a black screen. Result, instead of half a watt being used, it's more like 200 depending on the size of the telly.
Recharge
10-09-2007
Make the politicians live in caves for a few years, that would save some eletricity.

I am worried about the effect all the hot air coming out of Cameron's mouth is having on the enviroment.

That damn fool better not win an election, I prefer "I don't change much" Brown, he's been in power for 2 months and not screwed anything up - Cameron's been "running" for years and annoyed the hell out of me, imagine what he'd do in power.
Caxton
10-09-2007
Well I think that all MPs of all parties wanting to save the world set a good example by doing away with their cars completely and use public transport, stop flying and going on holidays abroad.

The same goes for all these "Green Save the World" members of the public and music, film and TV celebrities too, who spout on telling everyone how we should live our lives the "Green" way when most of the time they do precious little themselves except talk and dictate to everybody else.
Sambda
10-09-2007
Originally Posted by DocumentaryFan:
“Could the UK even ban plasma TVs if it wanted to? Isn't this a EU matter? After all, any Briton can buy a TV set anywhere in the EU and take it home without having to go through customs. Since the EU is a single market, I don't think any single country could (or be allowed to) just ban a domestic-use technology like that.”

There's going to be no "ban". They can't wait until a market is heavy with these goods and then ban them - there would be a revolt and people would want govenment compensation for their expensive purchases.

If anything, there will be legislation limiting the power consumption of these devices for *newly sold* models.
c3pod4qp
10-09-2007
According to the LG website:

LG 42" Plasma

310W Typical
1W Stand-by (cable card off)

LG 42" LCD

260W Typical
Under 1W Stand-by (cable card off)

What does 'cable card off' mean?
Kojack
10-09-2007
Originally Posted by ntlhellworld:
“Bleeding liberal Clearly you are the idiot here.

David Cameron is simply a waste of time. Bringing in a law to save 2 per cent IS pathetic, for starters the national grid lose 8% of energy as heat from the cables !

If David Cameron brought in a law to ban non-energy saving lightbulbs, the UK would save 25% power (Thats more than the amount produced by all of the UKs nuclear power plants added together).

-Chris”


They have done this in Oz, its only legal now to sell an energy saving bulb.
Pablo Diablo
10-09-2007
Originally Posted by rwn72:
“According to the LG website:

LG 42" Plasma

310W Typical
1W Stand-by (cable card off)

LG 42" LCD

260W Typical
Under 1W Stand-by (cable card off)

What does 'cable card off' mean?”

Some US cable companies allow you to plug a cableCARD compatible TV into their network instead of using a set-top-box. So I guess it's that.
Gilson
10-09-2007
Originally Posted by Recharge:
“
That damn fool better not win an election, I prefer "I don't change much" Brown, he's been in power for 2 months and not screwed anything up - Cameron's been "running" for years and annoyed the hell out of me, imagine what he'd do in power.”

Thats because there aint nothing left to screw up. Brown and his former boss have so far screwed up everything possible! Pity is that we wont feel the full effects until 10 years time.

On the subject of the thread I calculated my "standby" costs using a digital multimeter as 0.28% of my overall combined Electricity and Gas costs. Thats 2DVDR's, 3VCR's 4x TV's (1 small LCD), 3DVB-T STB's cable box and a distribution amp all on. Actually i turn most of these off at the wall when not in use so my actual costs are a lot lower.

The occasional use of my security / floodlights is a far bigger consumer but I have yet to find a low wattage equivalent of a 500W halogen??
Last edited by Gilson : 10-09-2007 at 23:05
Daveoc64
10-09-2007
I'm 99% sure that EU law would stop our government doing this. They are not typically allowed to impose a ban on a specific type of product as it prevents the free trade principles of the EU.

I have to agree with other posters, there are far bigger products that waste energy without any need to.

Banning standby modes is also stupid, it is just not possible for some devices and it will limit a lot of products that are internationally marketed (e.g. the Nintendo Wii).
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