[GDK]

It's emerged today that Toshiba/HD-DVD group offered Warner a deal similar to what was accepted by Paramount and Dreamworks to go HD-DVD exclusive. However, they turned it down. There are news reports around today reporting the offer as fresh news, but the money was offered at the time of the Paramount and Dreamworks deal.

Well done Warner!

[doctorsmith]

Quote:

Originally Posted by GDK

It's emerged today that Toshiba/HD-DVD group offered Warner a deal similar to what was accepted by Paramount and Dreamworks to go HD-DVD exclusive. However, they turned it down. There are news reports around today reporting the offer as fresh news, but the money was offered at the time of the Paramount and Dreamworks deal.

Well done Warner!

Why well done?

Had Warner accepted the deal that could have been the beginning of the end for Bluray and at last the HD disc market could start to get somewhere.

All Warners decision has done is to delay mass market acceptance for HD discs even longer.

Bluray have already helped to stall the HD disc market by about 3 years and Warner's decision does not help at all

[GDK]

Quote:

Originally Posted by doctorsmith

Why well done?

Had Warner accepted the deal that could have been the beginning of the end for Bluray and at last the HD disc market could start to get somewhere.

All Warners decision has done is to delay mass market acceptance for HD discs even longer.

Bluray have already helped to stall the HD disc market by about 3 years and Warner's decision does not help at all

Didn't we just leave this party?

Since BD was, and still is in the lead in terms of studio support and title sales, it is Paramount and Dreamworks' decision (in the face of 2:1 sales in favour of BD (e.g. 300)) that's prolonging this format war.

I'd have thought even the HD-DVD fanatics around here would have got that by now.

[cable.con]

I wont be buying either format until an affordable recordable machine is available, which will be at least 5yrs away, I don't see the point in buying a HD/BR player, DVD player's work, the films released on dvd are usually under £13 and +- disks are cheap, until the same can be said for another higher quality format I will be sticking with good old DVD

[JimRockford]

Quote:

Originally Posted by GDK

Didn't we just leave this party?

Since BD was, and still is in the lead in terms of studio support and title sales, it is Paramount and Dreamworks' decision (in the face of 2:1 sales in favour of BD (e.g. 300)) that's prolonging this format war.

I'd have thought even the HD-DVD fanatics around here would have got that by now.

Sales are too small to really be significant. HD-DVD could still effectively wipe the floor with BD once the cheap players come out. Transformers and Shreck III should help as well.

[roddydogs]

How come the good old "Beeb" makes their DVDs in both formats?

[GDK]

Quote:

Originally Posted by JimRockford

Sales are too small to really be significant. HD-DVD could still effectively wipe the floor with BD once the cheap players come out. Transformers and Shreck III should help as well.

At this point, that's just speculation.

You could just as easily speculate what could happen to HD-DVD exclusive studios when the Toshiba/HD-DVD money evaporates in, maybe, 18 months time. 2:1 (recent figures on some titles show nearly 3:1) in favour of BD is likely to continue. For Universal, Paramount and Dreamworks, that would be 2 or 3 to zero. They would be missing out on a lot of disc sales. So would likely revert to format neutral. Or maybe BD only.

On the other hand, Sony *own* their studios. Can you see any circumstance where Sony would release, say Casino Royale, or *any* of the titles they own, on HD-DVD?

[berncol]

It's going to be interesting to see what happens in the States this Christmas. The HD-DVD camp plan to flood the market with cheap players thus, in theory, increasing demand for HD-DVD discs.
From a studio point of view I think it's ridiculous that there are exclusivity deals in place, forcing consumers to choose between one format or the other. So I also say well done to Warners for setting a good example by releasing on both.
In the long term I believe that dual format players will neutralise this 'war' and it will be the consumer that wins not the greedy manufacturers.

[smcbeath]

Until blu ray can do this, they have no chance of ending the war

http://www.highdefforum.com/showthread.php?t=50393

Venturer Electronics
Venturer SHD7000 HD DVD player: $199 Coming Soon!
Tech Specs:
HDMI
S-Video
Component Video
Up-convert Standard DVD’s to 720p/1080i “Near-HD-Picture/Audio Quality”
Ethernet Connectivity
Dolby TrueHD Sound – 5.1ch etc.
CD/DVD/HD DVD Playback
480i/p, 720p, 1080i
Supports mandatory HD DVD requirements of persistent storage, network interface and HDi support etc.

Price point will win the day, in the end. How many of these players will be bought/given away as xmas pressies in the usa. If blu ray could do the the same, £100+VAT, then i would buy one.

[Jarrak]

Quote:

Originally Posted by GDK

On the other hand, Sony *own* their studios. Can you see any circumstance where Sony would release, say Casino Royale, or *any* of the titles they own, on HD-DVD?

Yes, SONY are not stupid when faced with a harsh commercial reality. Of course saying you can see circumstances that would cause them to support HD DVD is vastly different from those circumstances actually existing

[Jarrak]

Quote:

Originally Posted by berncol

It's going to be interesting to see what happens in the States this Christmas. The HD-DVD camp plan to flood the market with cheap players thus, in theory, increasing demand for HD-DVD discs.
From a studio point of view I think it's ridiculous that there are exclusivity deals in place, forcing consumers to choose between one format or the other. So I also say well done to Warners for setting a good example by releasing on both.
In the long term I believe that dual format players will neutralise this 'war' and it will be the consumer that wins not the greedy manufacturers.

Indeed, the HD DVD camp really do need to make this holiday season and perhaps the winter/spring month pay bigtime with cheaper hardware (very easy to do), high class content (more difficult) and effective marketing (SONY are kick ass at that).
As GDK points out SONY own studios unlike Toshiba and SONY spent huge amounts of cash in the couple of years before the PS3 (well Blu-ray in reality) launched buying US studios which eliminated content from HD DVD and securing exclusive content for themselves.

The very existence of exclusive studio support is a direct attempt to remove competition based on hardware price/performance and while both camps are guilty it's SONY with it's own studios who set the ball in motion.
Lets not forget the very idea of HD players dropping price to DVD levels was something that was not on the cards from either camp in this sort of time scale, HD was meant to bring about a few years of uber profits before going mainstream, thankfully SONY did not get their way and upto a point neither did Toshiba.

[Jarrak]

Quote:

Originally Posted by smcbeath

Price point will win the day, in the end. How many of these players will be bought/given away as xmas pressies in the usa. If blu ray could do the the same, £100+VAT, then i would buy one.

Somehow I think £200 for the UK version is closer to the mark even with the E1 selling below that but we can hope

[Jarrak]

Quote:

Originally Posted by roddydogs

How come the good old "Beeb" makes their DVDs in both formats?

All three formats

Maybe too many questions could be asked if they supported one format over another when both formats are selling and like Warner they are going to remain neutral for now.

[JimRockford]

Quote:

Originally Posted by smcbeath

Until blu ray can do this, they have no chance of ending the war

http://www.highdefforum.com/showthread.php?t=50393

Venturer Electronics
Venturer SHD7000 HD DVD player: $199 Coming Soon!
Tech Specs:
HDMI
S-Video
Component Video
Up-convert Standard DVD’s to 720p/1080i “Near-HD-Picture/Audio Quality”
Ethernet Connectivity
Dolby TrueHD Sound – 5.1ch etc.
CD/DVD/HD DVD Playback
480i/p, 720p, 1080i
Supports mandatory HD DVD requirements of persistent storage, network interface and HDi support etc.

Price point will win the day, in the end. How many of these players will be bought/given away as xmas pressies in the usa. If blu ray could do the the same, £100+VAT, then i would buy one.

Quoted for truth.

[GDK]

Quote:

Originally Posted by berncol

It's going to be interesting to see what happens in the States this Christmas. The HD-DVD camp plan to flood the market with cheap players thus, in theory, increasing demand for HD-DVD discs.
From a studio point of view I think it's ridiculous that there are exclusivity deals in place, forcing consumers to choose between one format or the other. So I also say well done to Warners for setting a good example by releasing on both.
In the long term I believe that dual format players will neutralise this 'war' and it will be the consumer that wins not the greedy manufacturers.

Quite. I actually agree with most of what you said. However recent news reports say that Wal-Mart, amongst other US retailers, have NO plans to stock that cheap Chinese HD-DVD player. It's hard to know if that will be significant or not. There may well be other cheap players that are yet to be announced.

[GDK]

Quote:

Originally Posted by smcbeath

Until blu ray can do this, they have no chance of ending the war

http://www.highdefforum.com/showthread.php?t=50393

Venturer Electronics
Venturer SHD7000 HD DVD player: $199 Coming Soon!
Tech Specs:
HDMI
S-Video
Component Video
Up-convert Standard DVD’s to 720p/1080i “Near-HD-Picture/Audio Quality”
Ethernet Connectivity
Dolby TrueHD Sound – 5.1ch etc.
CD/DVD/HD DVD Playback
480i/p, 720p, 1080i
Supports mandatory HD DVD requirements of persistent storage, network interface and HDi support etc.

Price point will win the day, in the end. How many of these players will be bought/given away as xmas pressies in the usa. If blu ray could do the the same, £100+VAT, then i would buy one.

It remains to be seen whether this machine is as significant to the format war as it sounds. Some major US retailers (e.g. Wal-Mart) have already said they've no plans to stock this machine. They could always change their mind of course and I guess there must be some US retailers planning to stock it. The HD-DVD camp couldn't be paying for these to manufactured without firm orders could they?

OTOH, it's hard to see any BD machine getting down to that price point anytime soon. I believe, in the long run, BD could, once setup and development costs have been recouped, but that's a long way off and depends on HD on disk going mainstream and ultimately replacing DVD.

[Apollo 1875]

I recently got a Tosh E1 and I'm loving it. That hasn't deterred from intending to get a PS3 as soon as I can. Then, for me, the war will be over.

If Blu-Ray fails, I'll have a kick ass games console that will also stream high def downloads to my TV.

If HD-DVD fails I'll have a kick ass upscaling DVD player.

Make love, not war.

[carefree cook]

Quote:

Originally Posted by smcbeath

Price point will win the day, in the end. How many of these players will be bought/given away as xmas pressies in the usa. If blu ray could do the the same, £100+VAT, then i would buy one.

fair enough, but, guess how much the trade price of a sony BDPS1ES blu-ray player is. £329. retail price is £799-899. that means they are being produced for less than the 329. thats a hell of a lot of mark up on the price so,

a) sony have a hell of a lot of leverage on any future price reductions, if ever needed in the 'war'

b) if blu-ray really are loosing the 'war', why would they continue to keep such a large margin and not reduce the price??

putting the blu-ray in the ps3 is the ace up sonys sleeve.


plus i think the good ole british public should come round to pay for quality, not for cheap korean $hite thats not up to spec

[guitardave]

Although I think it's inevitable that Blu Ray will "win", I do wish that all studios would release their films on both formats. Then it would be up to the public to decide which would prevail, rather than having to miss out on some films because they're on a different format.

I won't be buying Transformers on dvd - I want high def versions of films now, and if it means missing out on some, then so be it. Likewise, some hd-dvd owners will be missing out on Blu Ray exclusives. It's a daft situation - surely the likes of Paramount would be making more money by releasing on all formats, instead of losing sales by choosing just one?



Dave

[Jarrak]

Quote:

Originally Posted by guitardave

It's a daft situation - surely the likes of Paramount would be making more money by releasing on all formats, instead of losing sales by choosing just one?



Dave

Yes indeed but that is what happens when hardware manufacturers have a say in the software side as well, works for games consoles but not for movie/tv pre-recorded media with a history of single format.

As for Paramount the "sweetener" is hardly significant since one big summer movie would cost far more than the 18 month hand out. The one aspect that makes some sense is that at the low sales levels both formats currently have the slightly higher cost of Blu-ray (especially BD50) means they make more profit on HD DVD.

The big kicker at least for me is that most studios want a single mass market format and that is going to be determined on price alone and HD DVD has always been the cheaper option and far more likely to hit the levels which would appeal to the average joe bloggs.
I see it as Paramount with a little extra incentive are supporting HD DVD in the hopes it does become the mainstream format and then Disney and FOX will probably have to follow suit despite proclaiming superior DRM on Blu-ray is their major concern.

I agree that if every studio was format neutral then the consumer could buy on hardware price/function alone but then Blu-ray would have died a death, pity

[guitardave]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jarrak

I agree that if every studio was format neutral then the consumer could buy on hardware price/function alone but then Blu-ray would have died a death, pity

I doubt it, but hey ho, I'm a Blu Ray customer, so I'm biased.



Dave

[Jarrak]

Quote:

Originally Posted by guitardave

I doubt it, but hey ho, I'm a Blu Ray customer, so I'm biased.



Dave

Here are my thoughts and consider it honestly and discuss

HD DVD, far cheaper hardware with a complete finalised spec with ethernet at launch.
Blu-ray, more expensive and unfinalised spec, higher capacity.

So on the basis I really can not see how a Blu-ray standalone given that movies have been virtually identical on both formats could be expected to compete even with the same price points for the movies.

Factor in the PS3 (vastly overpriced thanks to the inclusion of Blu-ray over DVD) and subsidised at a rumoured $240-$300 at 2006 prices could still have made Blu-ray a force to reckon with but we've seen that the inclusion of the PS3 into the overall market doesn't provide the same bump in movie sales.

All that considered I think a Blu-ray/HD DVD launch within months of eachother and not advantage in movie selection would have meant Blu-ray totally failing.
It's no mystery why SONY bought up so many studios in 2004

[GDK]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jarrak

>Snip<
but we've seen that the inclusion of the PS3 into the overall market doesn't provide the same bump in movie sales.
>Snip<

I don't see how you can square that with the fact that disk sales are and have been for some time now running at 2:1 in favour of BD (where titles are available on both formats). Indeed, recent figures show almost 3:1 for some titles. That ratio has increased since the PS3 came to market.

[Jarrak]

Quote:

Originally Posted by GDK

I don't see how you can square that with the fact that disk sales are and have been for some time now running at 2:1 in favour of BD (where titles are available on both formats). Indeed, recent figures show almost 3:1 for some titles. That ratio has increased since the PS3 came to market.

The PS3 has made a difference, no denying that but not the difference the sales figures suggest when merged with the HD standalone player sales.

The PS3 2 million plus sales in addition to standalone when compared to HD DVD standalone and 360 addon results in a far greater than a 2:1 or even 3:1 ratio in Blu-ray capable hardwares favour.
That was my point, the hardware base is far greater than the software sales reflect since simply put most PS3's are not used to watch movies.
If the PS3's owners bought movies at the same rate as standalone player users the war would probably be over already




How do you stand on the two standalone formats (not consoles) going head to head with no exclusive content at pricing that reflects what they actually charged?
Do you still think that without the PS3 and with no movie advantage then Blu-ray disks would be outselling the HD DVD versions?

[Apollo 1875]

Interesting question.

I suppose, if the majority of PS3 owners are not buying Blu-Ray discs, then you would have to assume that Blu-Ray would still be out-selling HD-DVDs. Perhaps it's because people who've purchased a standalone Blu-Ray deck have more disposable income and therefore will also commit more money to amassing a collection of discs.

Blu-Ray's superior sales may well be down to fact that there is simply more content available to buy.

In most stores I've been in, there are approx twice as many titles available on BD as there are on HD-DVD. If some of the Blu-Ray exclusives had been out on HD-DVD I would have bought more discs by now.

Blu-Ray may have been even further ahead at this stage if the PS3 had been marketed as a media center. I believe the fact that the PS3 is commonly percieved as a rediculously over-priced games console, has restricted the sales of the hardware as well as Blu-Ray discs.