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CRT - still the best
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mediafriendly
19-09-2007
Originally Posted by w3dal:
“
if your serious about upgrading then i suggest you go to a similar place otherwise your gonna be with your crt for years and years to come if you just keep going to currys to look at the latest technology.

Dal”

I said the staff were knowledgeable where I went....
Kojack
19-09-2007
Originally Posted by w3dal:
“Thankyou!

because SD on a decent plasma screen looks very good

Dal”

No problems, we love our Plasma & think SD is absolutely great on a good channel & DVD.

Personally I think at the time our LG model was the better of their panels, because now I would go Samsung or Panasonic for value for money.
iain
19-09-2007
am currently at my folks where they have a 32" sharp lcd - so is intersting to see one in a home, rather than a store.

the main conclusion i've reached is that viewing distance is key - up close, SD (he only has freeview, so no HD) looks plain awful. but from about 10 feet or so it looks really pretty good.

the main thing i notice is slight jaggies around edges of people in foregrounds, almost a bit like when special effects are done using a blue/green screen.

and i think the eye adjusts - watching tribe last night it looked really good.

but looking close it still looks crap - so i guess there's an element of the brain forgetting that when it views from a distance.

Iain
whatvideo
19-09-2007
Originally Posted by TheBoingoBandit:
“The demo ones seen in stores are the same sets sold to the public.”

Duh!

Dont you think that settings on instore displays will have been altered by staff from boxed manufacturer presets?
whatvideo
19-09-2007
Originally Posted by w3dal:
“rant on

well i dont agree with anything you have said above either.

im sorry but going into currys or comet is just not good enough these days to look at a plasma or lcd setup.

you enjoy your CRT mate and ill enjoy my plasma - sorry but for me my plasma is setup properly and will wipe the floor with any of your offerings.

Dal”


You may view in Curry's or Comet but I prefer to take in demos in the exclusive outlets in Knightsbridge where a standard install will cost 5 figures.

You can watch your plasma -if you really think that SD quality on a plasma comes even close to CRT you are deluded or perhaps require an eye test.

Even the costliest plasmas dont come up to the quality (of SD) on a good CRT.

Some people think they are good enough (like you do) but SD quality on a CRT outweighs plasma by miles -and thats not opinion -its a fact
whatvideo
19-09-2007
Originally Posted by SeaviewHome:
“Must admit I feel sorry for a friend of mine.

He went to Curry's last week and went in the store with the intention of buying a plasma but the salesman persuaded him to buy an LCD saying that the picture quality was superior.

I went round his house and watched some of the Sky footie games over the weekend and we watched the broadcast in SD and the picture quality was crap, kept going blocky and pixelated.

He now wants to take the TV back and get a Plasma.

Are LCD TV's normally that poor when watching fast moving action in SD, as this is my first experience and having seen the picture quality I would never buy an LCD.”

It wont matter whether he gets plasma because fast moving pix are just as bad on one of those,except plasma also gives you the added fun of screenburn
whatvideo
19-09-2007
Originally Posted by amaninspired:
“I can't see a flicker on 50 Hz sets. The only 100Hz TVs that I have watched for any length of time were a pair of identical Toshibas that a friend's parents bought a few years ago for different rooms in their house.

On the 100Hz sets, I actually notice zig-zag lines running down the screen, which is not something I have ever seen on a 50Hz set. I think that I may have noticed something similar on 100Hz sets in shops a few years ago.

Am I one of the few people to see this, in the same way as others are part of the few that notice 50 Hz screens flicker?

In any event, my Sony KD32DC11 (32" Wega flat screen 50Hz CRT DTT) is safe in my front room for the foreseeable future. The picture quality never fails to impress me, provided that the source is good (last night's coverage of the Chelsea v Rosenborg game on ITV4 certainly wasn't - but that's nothing to do with the TV!), with DVDs looking spectacularly good.

Having said that, I'm really tempted to get a 20" Sony LCD for the bedroom - reasonably big bedroom screen in a reasonably small bedroom space! It will happily sit on top of the DVD player that's been in retirement since I bought a RDR-HXD710...and it looks good when it's switched off!”

I cant see 50Hz flicker either so have not had to buy 100Hz rubbish.

Its amusing to see so many people singing the virtues of SD on plasma and lcd sets when its obvious to see that SD looks plastic with no definition and detail.

You only have to look closeup at a plasma if its showing a facial closeup to see there is no detail in the skin at all compared with CRT when you can even see the pores of the skin.

Many people claim that flat panel sets hide the defects of SD (IIRC both Jarrak and N.Goodwin siad this) which is true ,but it does not get away from the fact that for whatever reason CRT and SD got together perfectly.

Granted if you are watching a large screen from a good distance then the clarity of plasma and lcd are far better than CRT but just take a closeup look .

Plasma and LCD dont look good closeup at all (in SD)
TheBoingoBandit
19-09-2007
Originally Posted by whatvideo:
“Duh!

Dont you think that settings on instore displays will have been altered by staff from boxed manufacturer presets?”



In many cases, no.


As I say many staff can't be bothered OR don't know how to OR didn't realise you could OR simply don't have the time.
whatvideo
19-09-2007
Originally Posted by iain:
“
the main conclusion i've reached is that viewing distance is key - up close, SD (he only has freeview, so no HD) looks plain awful. but from about 10 feet or so it looks really pretty good.



but looking close it still looks crap - so i guess there's an element of the brain forgetting that when it views from a distance.

Iain”

You are spot on.

But try telling the flat panel fans.

They just dont want to admit they have shelled out thousands for worse pictures (in SD)
whatvideo
19-09-2007
Originally Posted by TheBoingoBandit:
“In many cases, no.


As I say many staff can't be bothered OR don't know how to OR didn't realise you could OR simply don't have the time.”

Pro flat panel posters always use the excuse the sets are not setup correctly.

Now you are claiming that manufacturers are not setting them up properly.

Dont you think that manufacturers would want sets to make people happy when they switch them on and not to have mess about altering settings?

So you would assume they would sent sets out with settings that are optimal for most people.

But you seem to forget about the specialist dealers who will definitely alter the settings.
Can they not do it right either?
TheBoingoBandit
19-09-2007
Originally Posted by whatvideo:
“Pro flat panel posters always use the excuse the sets are not setup correctly.

Now you are claiming that manufacturers are not setting them up properly.

Dont you think that manufacturers would want sets to make people happy when they switch them on and not to have mess about altering settings?

So you would assume they would sent sets out with settings that are optimal for most people.

But you seem to forget about the specialist dealers who will definitely alter the settings.
Can they not do it right either?”




It is well know that most manufacturers set up their TVs to look bright in stores (as mentioned earlier) - especially brighter against rival sets..

Once at home the contrast, brightness and sharpness need to be toned down - usually a hell of a lot. This is true of CRT sets as well.
merlodlliw
19-09-2007
Originally Posted by TheBoingoBandit:
“It is well know that most manufacturers set up their TVs to look bright in stores (as mentioned earlier) - especially brighter against rival sets..

Once at home the contrast, brightness and sharpness need to be toned down - usually a hell of a lot. This is true of CRT sets as well.”

If you buy off the shelf agreed, but a lot of these on display are running 24 hours for weeks, so must be knackered,I always buy it in the box and if its from cur/com, make sure its sealed.
Kojack
19-09-2007
RIP CRT, long live the flat panel
whatvideo
19-09-2007
Originally Posted by Kojack:
“RIP CRT, long live the flat panel”

I agree.

CRT is a bulky intrusion in the living room and flat panel sets look really good.

However ,until I can get away from watching SD material I will stay with the CRT.

I know that if I bought that sexy looking flat panel in the shop I would start moaning the instant Sky Digital or Freeview or even Virgin was switched on.

The announcements in the last day or so about HD from ITV and C4 aswell as more BBC is long awaited .

Once we have an HD disc winner then a flat panel set will be a must
merlodlliw
19-09-2007
Originally Posted by whatvideo:
“I agree.

CRT is a bulky intrusion in the living room and flat panel sets look really good.

However ,until I can get away from watching SD material I will stay with the CRT.

I know that if I bought that sexy looking flat panel in the shop I would start moaning the instant Sky Digital or Freeview or even Virgin was switched on.

The announcements in the last day or so about HD from ITV and C4 aswell as more BBC is long awaited .

Once we have an HD disc winner then a flat panel set will be a must”

tell that to BBC engineering.


Bob Wrexham
whatvideo
19-09-2007
Originally Posted by merlodlliw:
“tell that to BBC engineering.


Bob Wrexham”

For what reason?
Jimmy Riddle
19-09-2007
Tell BBC Engineering good luck finding someone to supply spare parts for their CRT in the next 10 years.

Being funded by the licence fee and what with paying Graham Norton £5 million quid I don't think replacing TV's is their top priority.

LCD and Plasma only get better with more R&D.
Nigel Goodwin
19-09-2007
Originally Posted by whatvideo:
“Duh!

Dont you think that settings on instore displays will have been altered by staff from boxed manufacturer presets?”

No, they come from the manufacturer set to VIVID (the Sony term, other manufacturers call it something else), purposely so the thick shop staff don't need to alter anything!

This means EVERY set you deliver has to be turned down

Not just Sony, all others seem to come that way.
Nigel Goodwin
19-09-2007
Originally Posted by whatvideo:
“Granted if you are watching a large screen from a good distance then the clarity of plasma and lcd are far better than CRT but just take a closeup look .

Plasma and LCD dont look good closeup at all (in SD)”

Neither does CRT - ALL sets have a minimum suggested viewing distance, based on the screen size. It's generally suggested as minimum 2.5 times for SD - otherwise you can see the lines that make up the picture on a CRT, or the scaling artifacts on a Plasma/CRT.

Biggest problem with LCD/Plasma is that people buy a MUCH larger screen, but still view from the same distance.
Jimmy Riddle
19-09-2007
I've seen the staff at Co-op altering the picture on several TVs, whether it was because they were bored though I don't know.

When you buy a £1000 TV you should be configuring it for your environment (e.g. taking it out Dynamic or Vivid mode or what ever the manufacturer calls it), everybody will have a different living room, so easier to give it to people in the same settings and force you to take a bit of time learning what it does.

Although it is said that the most dangerous thing you can give the customer is the remote control!
whatvideo
19-09-2007
Originally Posted by Nigel Goodwin:
“Neither does CRT - ALL sets have a minimum suggested viewing distance, based on the screen size. It's generally suggested as minimum 2.5 times for SD - otherwise you can see the lines that make up the picture on a CRT, or the scaling artifacts on a Plasma/CRT.

Biggest problem with LCD/Plasma is that people buy a MUCH larger screen, but still view from the same distance.”

Although you can see lines if you go very close to CRT the picture is still more than acceptable.

From the same distance (too close) LCD and plasma are a complete mess of undetailed mush.

As for sport especially football,lcd and plasma actually make 100Hz look good
cable.con
19-09-2007
There is only one good reason to buy a LCD TV, they use less power
Kojack
19-09-2007
Originally Posted by whatvideo:
“Although you can see lines if you go very close to CRT the picture is still more than acceptable.

From the same distance (too close) LCD and plasma are a complete mess of undetailed mush.

As for sport especially football,lcd and plasma actually make 100Hz look good”

Realistically who watches TV that close, no one, so does it matter.
As Nigel says is screen size to sitting distance that really matters.
heskethbang
19-09-2007
I've got a 32" flat panel TV (Toshiba) and I love it to bits, and wouldn't part with it.

However, even I have to admit that a good picture on a good cathode-ray tube is better than that of a flat panel.

Same with DAB - much as I love my PURE/Sony radios, the sound quality doesn't quite match up to a good analogue FM signal.
whatvideo
20-09-2007
Originally Posted by Kojack:
“Realistically who watches TV that close, no one, so does it matter.
As Nigel says is screen size to sitting distance that really matters.”


I'm not saying that people watch up that close ,but many people watch close enough to see the low quality of lcd and plasma with sd.

My friend has a Toshiba LCD and its by far the best picture with sd that I've seen ,but even he admits that he has to sit further away than he used to because his dvd's look so bad
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