I am considering this dvd recorder as a replacement for my ageing philips dvd recorder and ultimately to also replace my tivo.

Main reasons for going for the 87 rather than the 77 are

1) I have about 250 blank dvd+r disks (87 will write to them 77 won't - this is correct?)

2) The hard disk is 250gb (87) and only 160gb (77)

Anyone got the 87 -

a) if so is it good?

b) are there any problems?

c) as stated above I will be using it as a pvr as well as a dvd recorder - is setting a recording easy? is it reliable?

I have heard of a recording mode whereby the recorder utilises the whole disk to record the programme at the best resolution - sorry can't wxplain myself - but basically a 95 minute recording would fill the disk and be at a better resolution than a std mode which would leave 25 minutes of the disk free

Hope this makes sense - and the question is - do either/both the 77/87 models have this functionality?

That function is referred to as FR recording mode. It adjusts the data rate so that the length of the programme fills the disk. It is available on both machines.

Other than the HDD size the only other difference between the machines is that the 87 plays DVD Audio, the 77 can't.

So to confirm the 87 will write to +R +RW whilst the 77 won't - is that correct.

Good question. Off the top of my head I don't know since I've never used + disks (only used - and RAMS). Without checking the instructions I honestly can't be sure.

I can't see anything that says the 77 can't do + disks. Both models seem equally capable. You can always check the instructions here :

http://www.panasonic.co.uk/customer-...oad-centre.asp

to see if there are any restrictions that would be problematic. The instruction book for the 87 and 77 are the same.

With regard to recording from the pvr it's dead easy, just set the input to scart /av 2 start the playback and press record, also setting a recording on the panny again is easy, look up the program on the 7day epg and press record, on my units this then takes you to a menu where you can set the buffers and whether you want to record once/weekly and daily.
Dave

Dave -

1) have you an idea what %age of recordings are successful please?

2) how easy is it to edit a recording - say to remove the ads?

3) when you edit a recording does it change the original or does it create a second abridged version?

Hi i was lucky enough to buy myself one of these a month ago and i have to say i am absolutley over the moon with it. If you want to take the adds out of a film you can do it frame accurate and you can edit them out easily using the partial delete function in the edit menu, i have never had a recording fail and it will work with every blank dvd disc you can buy. I am also very impressed with the picture quality that you get from the digital tuner, panasonic really have made an excellent machine with this one and i am one very very happy owner.
barloo2000.

1] I would expect a 100% success rate.

2 ] Easy - Much detailed advice available if required.

3 ] There are several ways of editing.
You can do both destructive [ i.e. actual removal of material ] and non-destructive editing [ All original material remains intact ] but programmes can be played out or copied elsewhere minus material you don't want and with chapters in any order you want and repeated if desired.

The only difference between the EX77 and EX87 is the size of the hard disk ... and that also the EX87 supports DVD audio.

Yes they both have FR mode.

Edit - Apologies I see comic sansserif has already said this.

Further to above... The units will write to +R and +RW ... but it is really a -R and -RW machine. The + capability is a bolt-on.

Greater function is gained by using -R-RW discs.

Hi srhill, it seems that all of your questions have been answered by the thread guru. Good luck if you decide to buy one.
Dave

I am having problems with my DMR-EX87EB-K, in regard to copying titles from the hard drive to the DVD.
If I record any programmes in 16.9 ratio to the HDD, in anything above 3:59 F.R. mode, (or in L.P. mode), they won't copy to the DVD disc, in high speed copy mode.
I know that you are not supposed to be able to copy E.P. recordings of 16.9 ratio progs in this way, but L.P. recordings should work.
I know that 16.9 titles can't be transferred at high speed on to +R discs, but it should work on -R Discs. It certainly works that way on the other two Panny's that I have. (EX85, & EX95).
When you try to copy titles recorded in L.P., or over 3:59 in F.R. mode, to a -R disc in high speed copy mode, it comes up with a message about not being able to copy titles at high speed, if recorded in "E.P.", or "F.R." modes equivalent to "E.P." modes. Well, L.P. mode is neither!
I noticed that when I switched the unit on this morning, there was a message telling me that the software had been successfully updated, could this be the problem? (A bug in the new software?) Currently states the software is version 1.11.
The only way to transfer these titles to disc, is to revert to a real time copy. The problem with this is, that it takes a long time, and you lose any chapter marks that you have created in the edited title on the HDD, as when the disc is finalized, it puts new chapter marks on the disc at 5 minute intervals.
Has anyone else had this problem, or found a way around it?

The unit uses variable bit rate so the actual eventual filesizes depend on content... hence the uncertainty about quality equivalents... and limitations.

The new software update dealt with some very trifling issues that have nothing to do with this. Also, software updates only ever deal with the DVB reception software, not machine operation.

But surely the simplest way around it is not to go to such low quality extremes?

2 hours max per disk should be the target norm.
3 hours is pushing it ...and 4 hours gets into the realm of joke qualities.

It seems that things are not quite in perspective when you must have spent something over £1000 for three high quality machines and then compromise quality to such an extent for the sake of a 20 to 30 pence disc.

I cannot see that there is any other answer for your problem.

Firstly, I would like to point out that I do normally stick to the 2 hour mode, and split a series of say, six half-hour progs over 2 discs. However, sometimes, it is preferrable to have all the episodes on one disc. This is mainly due to the fact that if I want to take these discs on holiday, to play on my portable DVD player, it cuts down on the number of discs I have to take with me. (Yes I know I'm a sad old git, and I don't get out much!!!).
Another reason is, it saves me having to get up and change the disc half way through!!!! (Yeah, I know, I'm lazy!!!).

I personally find the 3 hour setting perfectly watchable, even on my 50 inch Pioneer, and the 4 hour mode is not too bad either. Obviously 2 hour setting, (or lower) is best, but the other settings have their uses, and it really is nothing to do with the cost of the discs.
My main concerns with this new model, is that if it is behaving as it should be, then Panasonic have cut corners on the features on this model. As I said on my previous post, the other 2 models I own, can carry out these functions perfectly, so why has this ability to transfer lower speed recordings, at "High speed", been removed?

Another useful feature that has been removed, is the ability to store "Names" in the unit, to use when titling discs, or edited programmes, etc. You can obviously still name these discs, etc., but cannot retrieve stored names. I found this facility quite usefull, and cannot see why it was removed.
On the other machines, I store certain words that crop up frequently, when titling discs, and progs, which saves a lot of work with the navigation keys on the remote.
I have indeed spent a fortune on A.V. equipment, as I also own two Pioneer 530's, as well as a Humax 9200 pvr, 2 Thomson pvr's, and a Sagem pvr, plus other assorted DVD recorders, etc. (I really must get a life!!!!!)

P.S.
Since my previous post, I have also discovered that it does not appear to want to transfer two other recordings on the hard drive, at high speed either. One of which was a 16.9 ratio title recorded in X.P. mode via the D.V. in socket, and the other was a film recorded in 16.9 ratio, and F.R. mode, set at 1hr 30 mins, therefore higher quality than the 2 hour mode.
I will try again tommorrow, with some new recordings, to get a better idea of what is going on.
If these higher quality titles cannot be transferred either, then I will be very dissapointed, to say the least, and will have to use my older machines more, as they have no problems, whatever speed the title was recorded in.
Last edited by grem : 21-10-2007 at 01:29

Hi grem, I`m having the same problems as you are. I record the golf on sky which is normally a 4 hour or 6 hour slot and use LP or EP(6 hour), neither of which can be transferred at high speed to dvd -r. This was never a problem with my old DMRE85H. I have been recording straight to dvd to avoid this problem, which sort of defeats the purpose of having an HDD recorder.

I quite agree, what is the point in having these long play modes if you cannot transfer them to disc at high speed. It means that the machine has to be tied up for hours on end twice, if you have to transfer them in real time!

It also means that the use of the F.R. mode to the HDD is, for the most part, pointless. This is because the main reason for the F.R. mode, is to be able to record a programme of a particular length, say for example, 4 hrs 35 mins, and to make it fit perfectly on a DISC at the best possible quality. If, you cannot then transfer it from the HDD to a to a disc, what is the point?

I have been very disappointed with the 77, from an archiving point if view. You cannot high-speed copy to +R any material that has the widescreen flag! As most programs seem to transmit with the widescreen flag anyway it's virtual pointless supporting +R in the first place. No doubt they had to do so, as the market demands universal media support, but they could have fully supported this media. You will also find that you can copy at high-spped to +RW disks, but it looses the widescreen flag, so you get a distorted picture on playback. DVD -R is better supported, but that can have problems with the widescreen flag as well, as it's put on with 4x3 material giving you a stretched picture on playback. As the original protagonists for DVD -RAM it's not suprizing that there doesn't seem to be any problems with the widescreen flag on those disks. But the biggest gripe is that you cannot specify a particular manual recording mode as you can with my Pioneer 440HX. I virtually always use 3-hour mode, as you can get either 4 1-hour programmes from commercial channels (removing ads trims them down to about 47 minutes each), or 4 50-minute BBC programmes (usually about 48 minutes each), or 3 1-hour BBC programmes squeezed onto a disk, or even 2 films (3-hour mode MN15 on the Pioneer, or LP mode on the Sony 710 is actually about 3 hours 10 minutes). Yes, you can set FR mode for programming, but you have to calculate how long to set a manual recording to get the quality mode that you want. Both Panasonic and Sony seem to be bringing out new machines with new headline grabbing features (up-scaling, HDMI, Divx, etc), but quietly dropping other essential features that you would have thought would still be included, (this is my first, and last Panasonic machine. My Sony 560 is a disaster for archiving, and it seems the newer 870 is even worse).

Pleae use paragraphs -
It would make your post much more readable.
Thank you.

Sorry, typing into a small box doesn't make one aware of what it will display like, especially if you start out with a short reply and keep adding extra thoughts.
Working in the computer industry for 40 years I've always been painfully aware how precious every bit of data space is.

Understand.

When you are writing a post, to the right of the 'Submit reply' button is a 'Preview post ' button, which you may find helpful for seeing what the finished result will be like.

Going from my DMR-HS2EB first-generation panny (which just broke) it is impossible to use high-speed dubbing to DVD - Only to a 'RAM' disc - for some reason only Panasonic can answer.
This applies to any format etc....
It has been the bugbear since the machines first came out.

Note that FR is not the same as EP mode. It uses the best (least-compression mode) that it can use to fit the programmes onto the disk and caculates the amount of compression to use (or not use!) to fit the whole of the required material onto the disk (Up to 6hrs)
Looking elsewhere on this forum at Panny posts is a lot of info if you have the time to study it.
Good luck

You can always use the Preview Post option

Just to say - I finally bit the bullet over Xmas/New Year and bout a EX77 - great offer price from Richer Sounds.

ps EX77 writes to both +R and -R (however you need to format +R discs prior to recording). re W/S - couldn't notice any difference between recording on a +R and a -R - however as the panny is connected via HDMI this may negate the problem?