Yes, I'm sure that you remember the absolutely wonderful support that was given with the iPlayer, you do remember don't you, the iPlayer that was always going to be supported (and yes, it was only a set top box, but the principle is the same). I was a member of the same iPlayer forums as yourself.


Sorry, just rechecked the news item, you are correct however it will continue to be supported.

But I do agree with others, you do seem to have issues with the Toppy, just as you has issues with the iPlayer.

You have issues with Topfield just like you had issues with Netgem.

You have issues with the firmware supplied by Topfield just as you had issues with the firmware supplied by Netgem.

You have issues with the frequency of bugfixes on the Toppy just as you did with the iPlayer.

You seem to want to go out of your way to run down the Toppy, the company and even the unofficial forum community that exists (which provides very valuable additional support and advice, something that you seem to regard as in some way wrong). You so seem to be rather bitter. And that is the thing that is odd, yes some might not like the Toppy, that's OK - but why not go and buy something else if you are that unhappy with it. I'm sure someone will gladly give you a fair price for your second-hand Toppy.

Who has vested business interests in the Toppy then? Perhaps you'd care to share that? If you're suggesting I do, then you're very much mistaken, and I don't think there's anyone else here who does.

In every other market, where they've introduced new models, like the Masterpiece range, they've also carried on producing updates for older ones, right back to the TF5000PVR, which is still on sale - despite there being versions in Australia with, for example, wireless, or a VFD display, or HD capability.

So why is it exactly that you feel the need to come on here and repeatedly spread misinformation about the Topfield products?

You don't have inside information - if you did, you wouldn't erroneously state that they've chosen not to add the extra software features of the 5810 to the 5800. Given that the news announcement of the 5810 specifically states the opposite, one can only wonder why you felt it necessary to post what you did.

If, in all the markets where Topfield has products on sale, they still sell the original TF5000, despite introducing newer models with more features, why are you so confident in telling people the 5800 is going to be ceased, just because there's a new model here?

You still haven't explained why introducing a new model is a "kick in the teeth" for exsiting customers, either.

Anyone would think you just want to start as many negative posts about Topfield as possible.

Unless there's another news item somewhere that I've not seen, there's nothing in the one at http://www.toppy.org.uk/static/2007newmodel.shtml to suggest that manufacturing of the TF5800 will cease.

Anyone seen any other news pieces around?

Nigel, I was basing my statement on the line in the news item


I'm more than happy to see the 5800T continue in production.

I have no issues. I just like to comment, and always respect the views of others. Interesting debate is at the heart of a good democracy. On the software front, I note that there is some promise to upgrade the 5800 after the launch of the 5810, and that support will continue up to and after the digital switchover. The exact wording on the Toppy website says:


Therefore, effectively the 5800 software could be updated any time between now and after 2012.

Logically, with such minor differences between the 5800 and 5810 (upscaled standard def, new front panel 'screen' - big deal, larger hard drive), I see no reason why the 5800 would continue in production. Of course, the manufacturer would want to insist that it will while remaining stocks are sold.

That's just support - it's actually one of the questions asked on forms for the digital tick certification, I think.

Even if production has stopped by then, the intention is that people know that they will still be able to get support and assistance, especially when DSO actually happens in their area. Rather than have someone tell them "Sorry, can't help, that's old kit."

As for actual production, nothing was said about that when the TF5810 was unveiled, but as I mentioned, the experience in other markets is that a new model doesn't mean older ones are automatically ceased.

I wouldn't be at all surprised if the opportunity is taken to make the 5800 more competitively priced, especially if the price of hard drives continues to fall.

And of course it could very well be updated pretty quickly, as there is nothing to be gained in running two firmware lines that are likely to be broadly similar in the underlying code whilst not adding the changes to the existing 5800T code and releasing it (something that we know is being worked on anyway)

I would be very surprised. The 5810 is effectively a pimped-up 5800, as featured in "Pimp My Toppy" last night. There is no reason for the 2 models to co-exist on the UK market.

There is everything to be gained, because the newer model would get faster updates - companies have limited resources, after all. Also, if the 5800 is updated quickly, some people might decide to just buy an upgraded 5800 rather than the new model. That amounts to a serious loss of revenue.

It is very likely that the same basic code exists for both models, with limited changes in some areas due to the (small number of) additional features on the newer model. Therefore to maintain firmwares for both models would be unlikely to consume much additional resource if any, especially if the code is built in blocks.


that is indeed a very cynical view.

We're talking about a business.

Market coverage. If you've got £200 to spend, you're never going to stretch to £300 and they've lost a potential customer by discontinuing the old model. Sell the new model at £300, mop up the premium customers. Sell the old model between £160-£200, mop up the mid range customers. People on a tight budget would carry on buying Vestel boxes.

Full Freeview Playback requires a certain amount of software activity to track timers in 'standby', which means the old unit is never going to completely comply, however there's no hardware reason for it not to support everything else.

I think the existing model will be price-matched against the "Hummy" so that would make for an interesting 'battle'.

K

Well, the official word from the importers is that the 5800 will continue to be available, just as the 5000 is still available in markets where there are other models.

The two models will both be on sale in places like John Lewis, Dixons group and other outlets.

I have no doubt of that. But the next question is at what point will they close the production line and service the supply chain from stock?

Well, I seriously doubt they're about to tell me that. But all I can suggest is that you look to the experience in other markets, like Australia.

There, the original 5000PVRt is still being sold, alongside an HD box (TF7000), a TF5000 Masterpiece version, and a wireless version (TF6000). And it's still being sold even though a new distributor has just been appointed, who can't exactly be selling from their stock.

Obviously, at some point, they'll decide sales aren't worth making it any more, but the suggestion that they're suddenly going to stop making it the minute the TF5810 is released doesn't seem to be borne out by what's happened elsewhere, does it?

Frankly, I doubt they've even made a decision on anything like that yet; all they know is that they'll sell both models side by side. If the price of the TF5800 comes down, sales may go up enough to give it an even longer run in the market.

I wonder what the HD size is going to be on the new model.

Bigger than 250 is all we know; I doubt they'd go to just 300, so it's pretty certain there'll be more than twice as much space as the original 5800 had when it was introduced.

No point buying drives in bulk until they're ready to ship; unless there's a major disaster in a hard drive factory, there'll be more space per £ in two months than there is now.

That makes sense - I for one am delaying the purchase of a new pvr as the 5810 looks like it might satisfy most of my needs.

If not overpriced a 500gb box would be ideal.

I agree, but eventually even that would fill up. I don't know about anyone else, but I always find the process of transferring material off the Toppy really slow and pains-taking. I wonder if the Toppy could be improved with a removable hard drive?

Based on the way Topfield seem to develop new models, I think you're going to be disappointed. Wireless hasn't appeared on any new models since the 6000 arrived 18 months ago, the disk isn't going to be larger than 500GB because that's becoming the new price/size sweet spot and an external hard drive connection will be just as slow as the existing USB because it'd still be USB.

Why not consider a different manufacturer? The Maximum 8000 looks rather promising, how about you try it out and let us know how good it is

Anywayyyyyy ..... as the good lady wife seems to be wanting to record about 3 or 4 programmes simultaneously these days, I have laid the groundwork for a possible additional Toppy purchase. And of course it might just be a good opportunity to look at the new model.

Personally, I have absolutely no use for the HD upscaling, but I can see that it's a very marketable feature, given the current trend in making people buy poor quality LCD displays with HDMI inputs. I think I'm sticking to CRT technology for quite a while yet.

Freeview Playback support will be nice (but promised for the TF5800, too), so the remaining (announced) feature of interest is the Front Panel -- but DeadBeef's TF5000 Display does a pretty reasonable job of improving the simple LED display on the TF5800, so even this feature is not a "must have".

I see the TF5810 as just a TF5800 for the current market. Without it, I expect the Topfield would be increasingly overlooked. We're a way off proper HD broadcasting in the UK, so it may be a long time until the next Topfield model after the TF5810.

I agree with you entirely. I'm sticking to my 100 Hz Sony CRT. I'm very happy with it.

I'm hoping that the Freeview Playback upgrade to the 5800 will be compatible with MyStuff so that I can try to start dispensing with padding.

I'm not particularly interested in having more than my 250 gigs. The problems still remain - the HD will still fill up, and a speedy and convenient way of transferring material off the HD seems to be an obvious progression.

I'm not bothered about an LCD front panel, when everyone uses the TV screen for most operations.

I agree that the 5810 seems to be just mildly enhanced 5800. It reminds me of mobile phone manufacturers who bring out a model that looks and feels almost the exactly the same as an earlier version, to keep sales going before releasing something radically new a year or so later. I expect we'll see an all singing, all dancing, newer Toppy being released a year or so after the 5810.

Like you, I see the 5810 as a 5800 for the current market. Therefore, I expect the 5800 to cease production soon after the release of the 5810.

Does anyone know if we can expect to see network connectivity on a UK Toppy any time soon (wireless or RJ45 - not bothered - gigabit would be nice ).

I have a SLUG but would be nicer if I could directly connect.

Cheers

Bev