I just have the TAPs installed which allow me to access MyStuff.

I edited a couple of programmes, crudely top and tailing them using the Toppy editors.

When I import some of them into Womble DVD maker (which handles .rec files directly) some of the programmes appear to be the wrong duration. This causes problems with playback when putting several programmes on 1 DVD. Womble thinks that some files have ended before they actually have. It doesn't occur with files which haven't been edited.

Is this bug being addressed?

It's not a bug, The toppy "editing" facility is not meant to be that precise (especially when considering dropped frames and audio sync etc). It's really meant for programmes that stay on the Toppy but where you want to remove padding etc, or remove a large part that you do not want, saving disc space. It is not meant to be a replacement for editing on the PC.

For PC editing, you need something more precise, which will cope with frame drops, etc. I use VideoReDo, there are free things around (detailed on the Toppy forums), MPEGStreamClip being one. The next version of VideoReDo will allow dvd authoring as well (you can trial the Beta version at the moment). I have transferred and edited many recordings on the PC, and produced a dvd that is fine, no problems, no audio sync errors either.

As the latest manual says (page57):


The latest manual is on the toppy.org.uk site (or are you steadfastly ignoring that site and the wealth of information there?).

What makes you think it's a bug in the Toppy? Or was it just an excuse to start another negative thread with the words "major bug" in it?

There are lots of issues with DVD burning, like timecode breaks caused by transmission glitches, and non-standard GOP sizes or non-compliant resolutions used by channeld on Freeview.

And then there are problems with some versions of particular software not working well, or fixing timecode breaks incorrectly, or burning errors. Some don't understand all the different variations on .rec format, either.

To blithely assert that you've discovered a "major bug" on the Topfield is stretching the point a bit. There could be any number of reasons.

What do you mean "appears to be the wrong duration?"

If Womble is telling you the file lasts a particular amount of time, and when you actually play it, it takes a different amount of time, then it's almost certainly Womble that's at fault.

I suggest you give full details to the people who wrote the PC software you're using, and ask them if the bug is being addressed.

If Womble thinks files have ended before they really have, presumably that means that it's underestimating the length of them?

MPEG StreamClip will deal directly with .rec files, allowing you to mark in and out points, created cuts at the adverts, and then convert for burning to DVD very quickly.

That really would be the best way of doing the job.

That's hardly major is it. I download a lot of recordings to the PC and the only problems I've experienced are timecode breaks, which are caused by data loss in the broadcast and are not Topfield's fault. MPEG Streamclip will fix these. Unless you've got large amounts of padding and want to speed up the transfer to PC it's not worth the effort of trimming recordings on the Toppy. The PC does it with a great deal more ease and accuracy.

I've just transferred a dozen episodes of Shaun the Sheep to DVD using HDTV2MPEG to topntail the padding and Roxio MyDVD LE to cut the DVD. All worked fine.

K

That's a revelation! I know the editing is crude - I grudgingly accept that. However, it should maintain the file integrity. If it doesn't then that's plain incompetence on the part of the programmers.

Thanks for your comment KennyTeam mate. I was referring to the situation whereby I edit first on the Toppy (because I'm not precious about the final result) and then transfer to DVD. My understanding is that the Toppy is corrupting something, because Womble only has difficulty interpreting Toppy edited .recs.

PS A friend of mine loves Shaun the Sheep

If you read the manual and understand that there are many inaccuracies in the broadcast stream anyway, then it is not a revelation at all.

Does it play back correctly on the Toppy? Is it declared as the correct length there?

You talk about file integrity as if it's the Toppy that has somehow destroyed it. But, as I explained, the Cut facility is NOT meant to be a replacement for a more sophisticated software editor on a PC whch can cope with all manner of problems on the transport stream that are nothing to do with file integrity but more to do with broadcast errors, dropped frames, etc.

In all fairness, we have tried to suggest to you the better way of doing what you want. if you want to ignore that advice (advice based on many hours of successful edits and dvd authoring) and blame the Toppy or its firmware for every problem going, then that is up to you I'm afraid.

After editing on the Toppy and dragging across to Womble, the duration of the clip (shown by the length of the corresponding block) is wrong.

Why edit first on the Toppy though? As I said, the Toppy edits are for Toppy saves only. PC tools are more precise and offer many more options (which is not surprising really).

How much is it wrong? Is it wrong when you look at it on the Toppy as well?

I KNOW that. However, I SHOULD be able to perform crude edits and drag the file to burn onto a DVD without problem. The manual does NOT say that crudely edited files should remain on the Toppy (as you suggest), it merely says that I have the OPTION of using a more sophisticated editor if I want to. You are misinterpreting the manual (which, yes, I have read).

If editing on the Toppy can corrupt a file, then the manual has a duty to warn users that this file may be unusable when burning to DVD. And that aint there. I'VE LOOKED!

No I am not. Perhaps you are reading something into the manual which is not there. As an example, just because the manual does not state that you cannot create an upscaled image on there doesn't mean that you can.


Firstly, there is no indication as yet that it is the Toppy that HAS corrupted the file (especially as you have yet to answer some of the earlier questions) Secondly, does the manual state anywhere anything about the things to do when burning a DVD, cos I have yet to see it.

Look, if you want to blame the Toppy for all the problems, fine, go ahead. You don't appear to be objective at the moment, and seem to want to find things to be negative about, especially when people are trying to help. And why you are persisting in crude edits on the Toppy when you are going to take the files to the PC anyway is quite frankly beyond me. PC editing is much easier, much more prcise, and will generally cope with broadcast errors such as incorrect GOP, and dropped frames. VideoReDo certainly does.

So, as I asked earlier,

How much is it wrong? Is it wrong when you look at it on the Toppy as well?

For example, is it wrong by say, 20 seconds, or many minuites on the PC? And is the Toppy also reporting an incorrect time on the edited file on the Toppy?

That's because it hasn't corrupted the file, and you're just determined to blame Topfield for the fact that Womble isn't doing what you expect it to do.

Mossy's not misinterpreting the manual at all; you're just wilfully twisting everything so you can shout, once again "I've found a major bug in the Toppy, what are they going to do about it."

I can quite happily edit programs on the Toppy and then burn them to DVD. Works a treat. I really think - and so it appears do most people - that you're looking in the wrong place for someone to blame here.

Does Womble say the file is longer than it really is, or shorter?

What Womble probably has difficulty with is not that the file is corrupted - there's no evidence of that other than you claiming it must have happened - but that there will, of necessity, be timecode breaks in it. You can't cut somethign out of a recording without that happening. And if that confused Womble, it's not a problem with the Toppy.

I have a 3 or 4 programmes which MyStuff doesn't show as having been recorded, but is visible in the Topfield menu. It's usually reported as XMb, but of zero length.

You can copy this across to the PC, and using VideoRedo repair it, then transfer back again, then watch it.

Fotunately it's a very rare occurance

There is now a TAP that you can run that I think will repair a file in situ - Recordingfixer (I have not used it myself though, don't know if it will help in your case).

Taken from the home page (just so that this is not pounced upon as another "bug")

Consider the following:

1. The problem only occurs after editing a file on the Toppy.

2. If I don't edit on the Toppy and edit on Womble then I never have a problem. I choose not to do this sometimes because editing on a PC takes longer, especially with multiple files. It's much easier to top and tail a file while on the Toppy.

3. Mossy is misinterpreting the manual. The manual does not say that edited files are intended to remain on the Toppy.

4. Given the crudity of the basic Toppy interface and lack of features in the basic software (e.g. padding), I would suggest that the likeliness is for the Toppy to be at fault. If there are timecode breaks caused by Toppy editing, then the Toppy should address this.

It seems to me that you and Mossy are suggesting that, because the manual does not mention burning DVDs, that we should assume that files on the Toppy are not guaranteed to be burnable.

So it is now common knowledge that there are Toppy-side problems in one context.

Oh give it a rest and READ and QUOTE my post IN FULL (although I did add some in an edit)


Or perhaps you don't want to be helped, preferring to whinge on and on about how bad the Toppy is. If you think it's that bad, sell it and get something else

This thread isn't about Topfields crashing in the middle of a recording.

No, that's actually for something else, but carry on grinding that axe. Recfixer is used when the box has been rebooted or switched off during a recording, and the header has not been written on a file; it's not relevant to your problem, so it's in no way an acknowledgement that there are "Toppy side problems." It's an acknowledgement that just like Windows, if you reboot or suddenly pull the plug in the middle of writing to a file, it may not be saved in a usable state, but can often be recovered.

You have a problem with the software you're using on your PC. The manual is intended to tell people how to use the PVR; it is not a guide for burning DVDs on the PC, hence it doesn't give information about that. Twist that any way you like - you'll still be wrong.

We are suggesting that Womble does not cope well with files where the video data is not in a single unbroken stream. There are ways you could check that, like using one of the alternative applications such as Streamclip, or actually helping people to help you by answering questions.

Again - what EXACTLY does Womble do? Does it say the file is longer than it is, or that it's shorter than it is? Are there any additional error messages, or log entries?

What happens if you open the same file with MPEG StreamClip? Does it report data breaks, timecode errors and so forth? Does it correctly report the length of the file?

And if you can't or won't try any of these things, you can't make any proper conclusion about where the problem lies.

I've already mentioned this. I drag the .rec file into the application and the corresponding block is not of the right length, i.e. it is not the right duration.

No, you haven't. You have just said the duration of the clip is wrong.

You still haven't answered the question as to whether it's under-reporting or over-reporting the length of the clip. I've not asked that just for fun, but because I think it may possibly point to where Womble is getting things wrong. "some files have ended before they actually have" is not sufficiently unambiguous. Has the data ended before projected time, or does there still appear to be data, even after a clip has played for the duration that Womble thinks it has?

And are there any other erorr messages?

Yes I have mentioned it ...



It is under-reporting the length of the clip. However, on occassions it has over-reported it. I don't think Womble is at fault. On some recordings, the audio and video have been out of synch with each other when playing back from Womble.