"Wrong" is not the same as answering my question; but at least now we know - it's under-reporting the length, thank you. Now try loading the same clip into VLC or MPEG StreamClip and see what they report.

Do they show the same? Or do they show the correct length?

Is there a slider or other playback control in Womble that you can move? What happens to the elapsed time shown when you move past edit points?

Is the duration reported in Womble the same as, or different from, the duration reported in the original .rec file header, as indicated in the Toppy's archive?

The picture sometimes freezes and locks when moving the slider along infected zones of the corrupted file. Sometimes the slider can be moved quite a considerable distance before the preview picture changes at all again.

I'm not in a position to answer the other questions.

Well, both are pieces of free software, so it surely wouldn't be too hard to download them.

From your description, it sounds like Womble is having problems where the cut is made in the file - not surprising, because of the way MPEG video works. Doesn't prove anything one way or another. The program has to get a whole key frame before it can update the display.

You can get VLC from www.videolan.org and MPEG StreamClip from www.squared5.com

And I was courteously replying to a post from someone else (WillS, the post immediately before my reply, hence I felt that there was no need to quote it), attempting to provide some help or guidance (even acknowledging that it was not necessarily going to fix the problem that the poster had).

You could also answer my earlier questions - such as

Does the Toppy under-report or over-report when you play the cut files on the Toppy and do those files play back perfectly well on the Toppy?

Tou can also download a trial version of VideoReDo from www.videoredo.com. It does cope remarkably well with cuts in files, as well as audio syncing (problems that I have had when I tried other software, both free and trial).

OK thanks. I think I'm going to avoid editing on my sloppy Toppy, and just transfer any files I want to keep straight to Womble.

So you haven't even tried any of the suggested downloads then? How can you be sure that it's not Womble?

Try the VideoRedo trial - good interface, allows editing at single frame level,
no errors or problems since I have been using it (over 12 months now). I use it to cut off the start & end of a recording, edit out adverts, then save as a .mpv and a .mpa file (VRD warns about dropped frames etc) This is then input to DVDLab, which then warns about some opens GOPs (which I believe you get when you cut a file), and authors the DVD. Again, no problems, no stutters, no loss of audio sync.


I also note the use of the term "sloppy" - obviously you still have not fully took on board what we have been saying.

By the way, can anybody recommend packages which cope directly with .rec files apart from Womble?

to refer to its editing accuracy (+/- 5 minutes when making a cut)

VideoReDo, web address as stated previously. As I said, very good, does the job really well. See post 33

There are also a couple of freebies, mentioned on the toppy.org.uk website as well as here.

Nonsense. It's nowhere near that inaccurate. 10 to 15 seconds at most in my experience.

That would tie in with my earlier quote from the manual, as well as comments that I have seen on other forums from other Toppy users.

MPEG StreamClip works find with .rec files too; plays them natively, converts files to .rec if you want to put them on to the Toppy, fixes timecode breaks, and converts to MPEG with MP2 audio very quickly, ready for burning to DVD.

Sounds like the broadcast was corrupted - what's your reception like?

The Toppy is usually smart enough to work out how to piece the bits it got back together again on playback. It can't create pictures it never got, but it skips the audio that it doesn't have video for so you may not appreciate that there are bits missing.

Sounds like the app you're using on your PC don't do that or are set up to keep as much data as possible so you can rescue it manually.

Try demuxing with ProjectX or PVAStrumento then importing the separate mpv and mp2 (or mpa) files.

Thanks cookie. My reception is excellent. Unfortunately I'm a really busy guy and don't have time to do an in-depth investigation. I don't want to take 2 software packages into the shower. I just want to record-and-go.

But sometimes in problem anaysis and resolution, you have to invest some time and effort to do just that (rather than searching for a one-stop solution or an easy target to blame)


Ah, if only life was that easy (especially when you are talking abot editing DTT broadcasts) ....... still, as I mentioned before, there are packages that will do just that. VideoRedo TV Suite (in Beta test) will do it (right through to DVD authoring), the existing VideoRedo will do it (minus DVD authoring).

Another one to look at is DVR-Studio (no DVD authoring) and DVR-Studio Pro (with DVD authoring): http://www.haenlein-software.com/HS/...70cfe6b09412bc

They also do free trial versions.

Bite the bullet and invest a little time in research. Authoring DVDs is time consuming anyway, and getting a package that works will save you time in the long run.

Womble does the job fast and effectively (It directly reads .rec files) as long as I don't edit on the Toppy beforehand.

Life could be that easy if the Toppy software checked for timeline anomalies as it was editing, and corrected them.

Fixing timecode breaks is not trivial; on the Mac it can take a few minutes for an hour long programme. The Toppy doesn't need to bother with it, since it can still play back the file just fine. so why slow down an operation on the PVR just to take account of problems in a piece of PC software? Given the relative speed of the processor on the Toppy, it would make a short simple operation take many times longer - and then I'm sure someone would be along to complain about that, too.

Your problem almost certainly remains in the PC software you've chosen to use. That's why people are suggesting alternatives.

Stick with your stubborn "the Toppy must be wrong" attitude if you like; but people are actually trying to help you here. Downloading other software won't take long. It will save you lots of time in the longer run.

If you have broadband, it'll take just a few minutes to download VLC and see if that reports programme length correctly. MPEG StreamClip will be a little longer, since you'll need QuickTime or QuickTime Alternative, but it's time well spent if you really do want to get on with burning DVDs.

And why indeed should it? It's a PVR, the on-board editing (and subsequent onboard playback) works very well. The facility to transfer to a PC and perform further editing is an additional extra, and one that needs additional tools and a modicum of understanding of some of the basics.

Now, either

a) You are really expecting far too much from the complex process of creating, recording and editing of broadcast video streams.

b) You quite frankly have no real understanding of the processes involved and as such are expecting a simple approach when no such approach exists.

c) You are too lazy or too stubborn to take the helpful advice offered here and are more than happy to heap whatever blame you can at the door of the Toppy (for whatever reason know only to yourself).

This is more than likely a Womble DVD bug rather than a Toppy bug.

I have been using the Womble editors for about 4 years.

I used it on files from my hardware MPEG2 encoder without any problems.

Then I got a Panasonic DVD Recorder which I edited the recordings on, then transfered the recordings to my PC using DVD-RAM discs.

Womble absolutely hated them, it would misreport the video length and go totally haywire if you had edited out a chunk in the middle of the video on the Panny.

However 3 or 4 versions of Womble later the problem was fixed and I can edit the Panasonic DVD Recorder video files without any problems.

I believe the addition of editing .REC is fairly recent. I expect they haven't implemented the editing of .REC 100% yet.

Hope that helps.

I suspect that the Toppy is creating Timecode breaks with its editing process. It doesn't need continuous timecode to play back so it doesn't worry about it. That's a bit like a word processor corrupting a hard disk and making it inaccessible (or difficult to access) by other applications.

The Toppy is all about interfacing with 3rd party applications. It shouldn't be making life difficult or corrupting files. And I would argue that it most definitely is a corruption.

OK - there's a small chance that Womble is doing something wrong. I'll check it out at some point. However, I strongly suspect (though strong circumstantial evidence) that it is the Toppy which is causing the inconsistencies in timecode. The implication that it is the responsibility of a piece of (non Toppy) software to sort out the corruption caused by Toppy software is ludicrous. If the Toppy is corrupting something, then users need to know.

Setting all this aside, if the Toppy is corrupting the data, then at the very least this should be mentioned in the manual. As I say, the whole point with the Toppy is that people explore 'above and beyond' its basic functions and explore a range of activities linked to it.

I REALLY think you need to get out more!