It's an interesting question. Some people might want to upgrade, others might be first-time buyers.

Also, is it too little, too late, especially in the light of today's announcement that the BBC is backing HD on Freeview and the 4 hour broadcasts could start "almost immediately".

http://newsvote.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/enter...nt/7012276.stm

It's a shame that we can't do a poll on here, but it would be interesting to know how many people are going to get the new box. I hope that some support is shown for the new box, despite it not being HD compatible.

You mean today's announcement that the BBC Trust think it best to delay the HD service until 2009, I think you'll find...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/7012276.stm

And the point of buying a HD-compatible box now for a service which might not even see the light of day, never mind start before 2009, is what exactly?
And how many people will axtually want HD anyway (especially based on a small 4-hr slot made available before DSo in 2012)? And is it not entirely feasible that an add-on unit might be available in order to add HD-functionality if needed?

Or is this yet another attempt to "have a go" at the Toppy and Topfield in general? A tactic that is getting tiresome.

You don't like the box - fine. Get rid of it & buy something that you do like. Or is it a case that you are one of life's moaners? And expect that everything (especially consumer electronics) has to be 100% perfect?

I find that quite a contentious statement, especially considering that I've said in this thread that I hope that some support is shown for the new box.

I'm basing that on the many other posts that you have made about the Toppy in general, their tone, and comments regarding the perceived level of support and competence from Topfield in particular.

Still, there's always chance that you now have a different outlook on the new box. We'll have to see.

As for the TF5840 - if I was looking to change (which I am not at the moment), I would buy it, as HD on DTT is far from certain, and I would prefer to see what level of HD service we get in reality coupled with the broadcast quality before I made a purchasing decision influenced by HD compatibility.

So do you think you will hold out until the BBC makes a further announcement about HD on Freeview?

I've already said - I would buy it if I was looking to replace at the moment. Even without HD, I would buy it, regardless of what happens with the BBC's announcement. There is still a great deal of uncertainty regarding the actual DTT HD standard that will see the light of day.

I have only had the 5800 since last September.

The news story is rather more hopeful than the actual statement from the Trust, which as I've quoted elsewhere, says they think it best to delay until there's dual mode equipment, as long as that's not later than 2009.

They may change their mind, if lots of people say "Hell, yes, let's spend money on something that'll be obsolete really soon." But essentially, that's what the Trust said; of course, it's in the middle of a long document, and it's much easier for people to skim and see things like "almost immediately."

The "immediate" option is laden with caveats, and not likely until the middle of next year at the earliest, dependent as it is on this round of feedback, then Ofcom's review of the digital dividend, and then the Trust's evaluation of that.

I feel that things will develop fast from now on. We could find that any new models launched over the next year are short lived.

I don't think you've actually read the statements about HD properly.

Things are actually very much up in the air; it's very unlikely many manufacturers at all are going to bother making models for a service that the BBC Trust themselves describe as interim. What's the point? As others have pointed out, it's a massive investment for a very small potential market.

That lack of clarity is why things like the TF5810 are coming - because there will be DVB-T broadcasts up to and past DSO.

Absolutely nothing is going to happen regarding HD on Freeview until the new year, other than a flurry of ill-informed speculation, and people submitting responses to the BBC Trust.

No one else has capacity on terrestrial; the BBC are the only ones with capacity, and they're not going to make any decision until sometime in the new year. That's probably a 4 month hiatus, until a decision is made on whether we might get an interim service, or we have to wait until 2009.

Just because there has been a flurry of news releases about HD, don't imagine anything is going to happen any faster than the timetable that the BBC and Ofcom themselves have laid out. It won't, because it can't.

I really can't see that many manufacturers will be rushing out new HD models when

a) There is no HD DTT service either now or definite for any time soon

b) The very best that we will see at the start would be 4 hours of recorded content from the BBC (i.e. no simulcast of the main BBC HD satellite channel) and certainly no simulcasting of any live programmes from the main BBC channels . No other broadcasters will have the space.

c) The HD specs may very well change before any rollout occurs


Now surely manufacturers would be stupid (and consumers might describe them as sneaky and irresponsible) to try to market a device that can receive terrestrial HD even though there is no HD service available? It would amount to little more than (to use a phrase that sums it up) "willy-waving".

Quite; and I'm sure if someone did bring such a box out specially, there are people who'd turn round and complain that it was really sneaky to sell a terrestrial HD box that would be obsolete in just a couple of years.

The economics really don't stack up for big makers; if the interim service is launched, I expect we may see some imports of continental units, but that's about it.

No one's going to even sit down and think about planning a model specifically for UK HD DTT until there's some clarity - which won't come until the BBC Trust reviews Ofcom's decision in the new year.

Bear in mind that the new year is almost here! Of course STB manufacturers may have more info than we do, and may be priming themselves.

Happy New Year!

Er, what info? Are you suggesting that they will know what the BBC Trust public consultation exercise will conclude, or that several other broadcasters will announce a HD service on DTT for next year (even though there is precious little space and there have been no limited/closed tests whatsoever (tests that even the normally active internet grapevine had no knowledge of)? Or perhaps they have close connections with both the broadcasters, Ofcom and the Government and are being fed information? Information that tells them exactly what the standard will be next year when HD DTT is rolled out to a very surprised public?

No, can't see it really.

People know people, and manufacturers will be working on HD STBs, getting the hardware in place, and probably writing the core of the software. After all, it's really easy to write a plug-in for whatever standard is settled upon.

Right, of course... Well, guess what. They don't have more info.

No one has a clue because there is no decision yet on what format will be used for HD, whether it's going to be DVB-T or DVB-T2 - a standard which won't even be ready until 2009. Of course people will think about what they might do - but they're not going to be investing huge amounts in kit for the very reasons that have been explained to you, time and time again.

It's quite clear that you actually don't really understand much of this; not so long ago you were saying you expected lots of HD on terrestrial within a year.

That's simply not going to happen, no matter how much you pretend things are other than they are. At the very most, all we'll see next year is the 4 hour BBC interim service - and as the Trust themselves say, they think it would be better to wait until 2009 when dual mode boxes can be made.

The new year is not almost here, in any event. There's still the last quarter of this one to go. We won't see any HD service launched "almost immediately."

Very easy to write a plug-in for whatever standard is decided upon?

How do you think these things work? You do realise, don't you, that this is not a PC with some creaky operating system? The demuxing and decoding is done not in software, but by dedicated silicon. That's not something for which you "write a plug-in"

If it were, then DVB-T2 wouldn't be an issue - there'd just be a magical "plug-in" for existing STBs. But that's not what happens.

So, two questions for you to answer:

1) Would YOU buy such a box if one was to appear next year and IF you were interested in a HD DTT service (even though such a service had not been announced or was potentially a year or so away, and no firm standard had been agreed post-DSO)?

2) Would YOU think that any manufacturer releasing such a box was being forward-thinking, or was using HD as a cynical marketing ploy when there would be little if any prospect of any sort of HD DTT service within a couple of years at the earliest?



It is? Perhaps if you know that it is that easy, you should get a job writing their firmware then.

To return to the original topic of this thread, I think anyone who's interested in a new PVR will find the 5810 well worth a look. As many have pointed out, HD is not just around the corner; there's no date for introduction, and you could buy a 5810, or indeed any other current Freeview PVR, in the knowledge that it will work up to and past DSO.

Some people might decide to wait for HD; they'll be putting off buying until at least the spring. And then they'll very likely - based on all the information so far - be putting off buying again until sometime in 2009. Or they'll buy an HD box next year that they'll have to replace after DSO to continue to receive HD, though it will likely work for SD for at least some time, as will any other box.

ianmoticon, with every post that you make, you show more and more that you knowledge and grasp of the facts is limited at best.

I suggest that you leave subjects such as HD on DTT to people who understand what the situation is, because to be honest you just making yourself look foolish.

It's highly unlikely that it will be 2009 IMHO. It's more likely to be sooner given customer demand.

I can see this one going round in circles, so I'll address the question of the thread:

If I were in the market for a new PVR the TF5810 certainly seems like the one I'd be going for. However I'm extremely happy with my TF5800, and there's not a compelling enough reason to upgrade at the moment.

What customer demand? You really think sufficient people will say to the BBC Trust "Yes, please, we'd love the chance to buy a box that you'll make obsolete in a couple of years" ?

Because that is the ONLY way in which anything will happen before 2009. And even that will be the "interim service" as described in the service outline, which amounts to 4 hours a night from just one channel.

There is no space. There is no special magic the BBC or anyone else can pull to make more space.

My thoughts exactly!