16x10 masquerading as 16x9

nineteen · 03-10-2007, 09:43

Just bought a Wherfedale LCD 22" freeeview HD ready TV from Argos.
Now this is advertised as having a 16x9 screen.
The screen is actually 16x10, and as a consequence everyone is slightly thinner than they should be.

There's even a picture on the box. This picture has been doctored to show the picture 16x9. Naughty!!

Anyway, it will go back to Argos, but SWMBO wants me to find a proper replacement before it goes.
Any recommendations for a proper 16x9 LCD TV with freeview around the 19" to 22"?

Gilbertoo · 03-10-2007, 13:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by nineteen

Just bought a Wherfedale LCD 22" freeeview HD ready TV from Argos.
Now this is advertised as having a 16x9 screen.
The screen is actually 16x10, and as a consequence everyone is slightly thinner than they should be.

There's even a picture on the box. This picture has been doctored to show the picture 16x9. Naughty!!

Anyway, it will go back to Argos, but SWMBO wants me to find a proper replacement before it goes.
Any recommendations for a proper 16x9 LCD TV with freeview around the 19" to 22"?

16x10? Are you sure the TV wasn't set to a particular viewing mode...I know that my TV can change the picture to 16:9, 14:9, 4:3, "Cinema", "Wide", "Subtitle", etc.

I've looked at the only 22" Wharfedale TV they stock and the resolution is odd so you maybe right.

bobcar · 03-10-2007, 13:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gilbertoo

16x10? Are you sure the TV wasn't set to a particular viewing mode...I know that my TV can change the picture to 16:9, 14:9, 4:3, "Cinema", "Wide", "Subtitle", etc.

I've looked at the only 22" Wharfedale TV they stock and the resolution is odd so you maybe right.

Lots of the smaller sizes are 16:10 because they are based upon computer monitors.

nineteen · 03-10-2007, 14:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by bobcar

Lots of the smaller sizes are 16:10 because they are based upon computer monitors.

Yes, after an hour of fiddling with the smaller TV's in Currys I think they're all 16:10
In fact the smallest screen that seemed to be proper 16:9 was a 26". Should have taken tape measure and calculator with me to check though.

It may well be that There just aren't any. I wouldn't even mind if there was a 1/2" gap at top and bottom. That way, at least the BBC circles would be correct!

Maybe there's an engineering menu somewhere?

BTW, the Wharfedale does auto aspect switching between 16:9 and 4:3, with the transmission. - which the various sets in Currys did not seem to do (Polaroid, Samsung ...).

bobcar · 03-10-2007, 15:51

There are some 16:9s available though it depends on your price range, it's the cheaper ones that tend to be 16:10. A quick look on the John Lewis website has several 16:9 TVs from 20" upwards, these are probably more expensive than the one from Argos but are also probably better quality (price matters when it comes to LCDs).

nineteen · 03-10-2007, 16:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by bobcar

Lots of the smaller sizes are 16:10 because they are based upon computer monitors.

Quote:

Originally Posted by bobcar

There are some 16:9s available though it depends on your price range, it's the cheaper ones that tend to be 16:10. A quick look on the John Lewis website has several 16:9 TVs from 20" upwards, these are probably more expensive than the one from Argos but are also probably better quality (price matters when it comes to LCDs).

This is the problem. Some claim to be 16:9 when they are not.

Do you know of any specific makes or models which are true?

bobcar · 03-10-2007, 18:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by nineteen

This is the problem. Some claim to be 16:9 when they are not.

Do you know of any specific makes or models which are true?

They have photos on the JL website, the Toshiba 20W3030DB 20" measures up okay as do the Sony Bravias and the Samsungs, Sharps etc. It seems that the good brands are okay but the cheaper ones were designed for monitors (there's a reason they're cheap, they're often old panels).

Praxidike · 03-10-2007, 18:44

I got the SM225MW from Argos, it's 16:10, but there's a 16:9 mode you can select to add bars top and bottom, which I wish was automatic.

All 16:10 TVs should ideally have this option, but this is the only one so far that I've seen with it.

Gilson · 03-10-2007, 18:45

If claims are being made that displays are 16:9 and they are not then the claimant (the manufacturer or the shop) should be reported to Trading Standards.

Orbitalzone · 03-10-2007, 21:26

My LG 22" is 16:10 and unhelpfully on their site it mentions 16:10 on one page and 16:9 on another.....

I think this 16:10 is common on 22" panels, probably as they're using a panel designed for PC use which seems to use the 1050x1680 resolution.

I get slightly squished widescreen images on mine, in fact I wrote a rather lengthy few posts with pictures on the AV forums, proving this screen was 16:10 and didn't display images quite correctly (contrary to what LG UK says) - to be honest, you really don't notice this slight error unless viewing a testcard (see the av forum link for evidence!) - and viewing TV (or testcards) from a PC displays correctly.

bobcar · 03-10-2007, 21:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Orbitalzone

My LG 22" is 16:10 and unhelpfully on their site it mentions 16:10 on one page and 16:9 on another.....

I think this 16:10 is common on 22" panels, probably as they're using a panel designed for PC use which seems to use the 1050x1680 resolution.

I get slightly squished widescreen images on mine, in fact I wrote a rather lengthy few posts with pictures on the AV forums, proving this screen was 16:10 and didn't display images quite correctly (contrary to what LG UK says) - to be honest, you really don't notice this slight error unless viewing a testcard (see the av forum link for evidence!) - and viewing TV (or testcards) from a PC displays correctly.

How can they deny it? A simple measurement proves it's 16:10.

nineteen · 03-10-2007, 22:25

OK , a visit to Comet cleared things up a bit.
It would appear that 19" and 22" LCD panels tend to be 16:10 and 20" panels - such as Daewoo, DMTech, Sharp, Toshiba Sony etc are true 16:9

Sadly, the SM225MW has no Freeview tuner. The SM225MD however, does. Whether this one gives the desired 16:9 view is unknown. My money says it doesn't.

Praxidike · 03-10-2007, 22:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by nineteen

Sadly, the SM225MW has no Freeview tuner. The SM225MD however, does. Whether this one gives the desired 16:9 view is unknown. My money says it doesn't.

The model number would suggest the MD is the same as the MW, but with integrated Freeview. The specs are also the same as far as I can see.

Although I suppose it all depends on if they're running the same software. Given that the MD has Freeview, it must have different software, but is this software built on the MW's grounds, and expanded on with Freeview, or completely different? I guess there's no way to tell unless you've seen it in action, or someone has one that can say.

It was so hard to find one that had the 16:9 option too, I looked everywhere for one! I guess a non-PC monitor would've been fine, since they're all 16:9, but have a resolution far too low to use as a PC, so they don't bother with a PC input usually. Why don't they do 16:9 monitors?! 16:10 is just completely pointless.

nineteen · 04-10-2007, 11:37

It's not until you see a 16:9 and 16:10 set side by side, showing the same channel that the problem becomes obvious.

OK.
So the Wharfedale went back to Argos - no problem.
Back to Comet - Decided to go for either the Daewoo or the Goodmans.
The Goodmans has the speakers on the sides, making it shorter and wider, which I think is quite stylish.
Both did automatic aspect adjustment, the Goodmans had an aspect override button. They didn't have the remote for the Daewoo, so don't know about that.
The Daewoo is HD ready, but HD on a Kitchen based TV is not on my list - and anyway HD on a 768 line system?
The Goodmans has more powerful speakers and is £50 cheaper
The goodmans had a more natural looking picture than the Daewoo, but who can tell.

I've reserved one of the Goodmans

Thanks for the support on this.

Tim

bobcar · 04-10-2007, 13:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by nineteen

It's not until you see a 16:9 and 16:10 set side by side, showing the same channel that the problem becomes obvious.

OK.
So the Wharfedale went back to Argos - no problem.
Back to Comet - Decided to go for either the Daewoo or the Goodmans.
The Goodmans has the speakers on the sides, making it shorter and wider, which I think is quite stylish.
Both did automatic aspect adjustment, the Goodmans had an aspect override button. They didn't have the remote for the Daewoo, so don't know about that.
The Daewoo is HD ready, but HD on a Kitchen based TV is not on my list - and anyway HD on a 768 line system?
The Goodmans has more powerful speakers and is £50 cheaper
The goodmans had a more natural looking picture than the Daewoo, but who can tell.

I've reserved one of the Goodmans

Thanks for the support on this.

Tim

Most HD TVs are 768 lines and most of the time most people wouldn't notice any difference compared to 1080 lines. My 50" plasma is 768 lines and very good it is to.

Orbitalzone · 04-10-2007, 18:45

I've noticed that the 19" Goodmans (not sure of model) looks identical to the Polaroid and Hitachi models, all have the same remote and work each other..... the Hitachi and Polaroid look identical and the goodmans was black not silver..... I suspect they're all made by Vestel (come on Nigel, you're bound to say something about this!)

None looked that great on the analogue channels that were running but what'd you expect in Currys!

nineteen · 04-10-2007, 23:38

Well, My 20" 16x9 Goodmans from Comet is installed and is fine. £8 quid off with quidco.
It uses an external 24V power supply.
The remote control is good and simple, without the overlaid menu's and dual cursor controls I found on the Wharfedale and technika. The sound quality is pretty good. It has a CAM slot too.
It's staying.
All in all, a good result.

03-10-2007, 09:43	#1
nineteen Forum Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Ramsbury Posts: 197	16x10 masquerading as 16x9 Just bought a Wherfedale LCD 22" freeeview HD ready TV from Argos. Now this is advertised as having a 16x9 screen. The screen is actually 16x10, and as a consequence everyone is slightly thinner than they should be. There's even a picture on the box. This picture has been doctored to show the picture 16x9. Naughty!! Anyway, it will go back to Argos, but SWMBO wants me to find a proper replacement before it goes. Any recommendations for a proper 16x9 LCD TV with freeview around the 19" to 22"?

03-10-2007, 13:23	#2
Gilbertoo Forum Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 19,059	Quote: Originally Posted by nineteen Just bought a Wherfedale LCD 22" freeeview HD ready TV from Argos. Now this is advertised as having a 16x9 screen. The screen is actually 16x10, and as a consequence everyone is slightly thinner than they should be. There's even a picture on the box. This picture has been doctored to show the picture 16x9. Naughty!! Anyway, it will go back to Argos, but SWMBO wants me to find a proper replacement before it goes. Any recommendations for a proper 16x9 LCD TV with freeview around the 19" to 22"? 16x10? Are you sure the TV wasn't set to a particular viewing mode...I know that my TV can change the picture to 16:9, 14:9, 4:3, "Cinema", "Wide", "Subtitle", etc. I've looked at the only 22" Wharfedale TV they stock and the resolution is odd so you maybe right.

03-10-2007, 13:33	#3
bobcar Forum Member Join Date: Sep 2004 Posts: 14,718	Quote: Originally Posted by Gilbertoo 16x10? Are you sure the TV wasn't set to a particular viewing mode...I know that my TV can change the picture to 16:9, 14:9, 4:3, "Cinema", "Wide", "Subtitle", etc. I've looked at the only 22" Wharfedale TV they stock and the resolution is odd so you maybe right. Lots of the smaller sizes are 16:10 because they are based upon computer monitors.

03-10-2007, 14:59	#4
nineteen Forum Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Ramsbury Posts: 197	Quote: Originally Posted by bobcar Lots of the smaller sizes are 16:10 because they are based upon computer monitors. Yes, after an hour of fiddling with the smaller TV's in Currys I think they're all 16:10 In fact the smallest screen that seemed to be proper 16:9 was a 26". Should have taken tape measure and calculator with me to check though. It may well be that There just aren't any. I wouldn't even mind if there was a 1/2" gap at top and bottom. That way, at least the BBC circles would be correct! Maybe there's an engineering menu somewhere? BTW, the Wharfedale does auto aspect switching between 16:9 and 4:3, with the transmission. - which the various sets in Currys did not seem to do (Polaroid, Samsung ...).

03-10-2007, 15:51	#5
bobcar Forum Member Join Date: Sep 2004 Posts: 14,718	There are some 16:9s available though it depends on your price range, it's the cheaper ones that tend to be 16:10. A quick look on the John Lewis website has several 16:9 TVs from 20" upwards, these are probably more expensive than the one from Argos but are also probably better quality (price matters when it comes to LCDs).

03-10-2007, 16:42	#6
nineteen Forum Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Ramsbury Posts: 197	Quote: Originally Posted by bobcar Lots of the smaller sizes are 16:10 because they are based upon computer monitors. Quote: Originally Posted by bobcar There are some 16:9s available though it depends on your price range, it's the cheaper ones that tend to be 16:10. A quick look on the John Lewis website has several 16:9 TVs from 20" upwards, these are probably more expensive than the one from Argos but are also probably better quality (price matters when it comes to LCDs). This is the problem. Some claim to be 16:9 when they are not. Do you know of any specific makes or models which are true?

03-10-2007, 18:22	#7
bobcar Forum Member Join Date: Sep 2004 Posts: 14,718	Quote: Originally Posted by nineteen This is the problem. Some claim to be 16:9 when they are not. Do you know of any specific makes or models which are true? They have photos on the JL website, the Toshiba 20W3030DB 20" measures up okay as do the Sony Bravias and the Samsungs, Sharps etc. It seems that the good brands are okay but the cheaper ones were designed for monitors (there's a reason they're cheap, they're often old panels).

03-10-2007, 18:44	#8
Praxidike Forum Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 9,103	I got the SM225MW from Argos, it's 16:10, but there's a 16:9 mode you can select to add bars top and bottom, which I wish was automatic. All 16:10 TVs should ideally have this option, but this is the only one so far that I've seen with it.

03-10-2007, 18:45	#9
Gilson Forum Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 1,145	If claims are being made that displays are 16:9 and they are not then the claimant (the manufacturer or the shop) should be reported to Trading Standards.

03-10-2007, 21:26	#10
Orbitalzone Forum Member Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Sussex Posts: 12,173	My LG 22" is 16:10 and unhelpfully on their site it mentions 16:10 on one page and 16:9 on another..... I think this 16:10 is common on 22" panels, probably as they're using a panel designed for PC use which seems to use the 1050x1680 resolution. I get slightly squished widescreen images on mine, in fact I wrote a rather lengthy few posts with pictures on the AV forums, proving this screen was 16:10 and didn't display images quite correctly (contrary to what LG UK says) - to be honest, you really don't notice this slight error unless viewing a testcard (see the av forum link for evidence!) - and viewing TV (or testcards) from a PC displays correctly.

03-10-2007, 21:55	#11
bobcar Forum Member Join Date: Sep 2004 Posts: 14,718	Quote: Originally Posted by Orbitalzone My LG 22" is 16:10 and unhelpfully on their site it mentions 16:10 on one page and 16:9 on another..... I think this 16:10 is common on 22" panels, probably as they're using a panel designed for PC use which seems to use the 1050x1680 resolution. I get slightly squished widescreen images on mine, in fact I wrote a rather lengthy few posts with pictures on the AV forums, proving this screen was 16:10 and didn't display images quite correctly (contrary to what LG UK says) - to be honest, you really don't notice this slight error unless viewing a testcard (see the av forum link for evidence!) - and viewing TV (or testcards) from a PC displays correctly. How can they deny it? A simple measurement proves it's 16:10.

03-10-2007, 22:25	#12
nineteen Forum Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Ramsbury Posts: 197	OK , a visit to Comet cleared things up a bit. It would appear that 19" and 22" LCD panels tend to be 16:10 and 20" panels - such as Daewoo, DMTech, Sharp, Toshiba Sony etc are true 16:9 Sadly, the SM225MW has no Freeview tuner. The SM225MD however, does. Whether this one gives the desired 16:9 view is unknown. My money says it doesn't.

03-10-2007, 22:59	#13
Praxidike Forum Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 9,103	Quote: Originally Posted by nineteen Sadly, the SM225MW has no Freeview tuner. The SM225MD however, does. Whether this one gives the desired 16:9 view is unknown. My money says it doesn't. The model number would suggest the MD is the same as the MW, but with integrated Freeview. The specs are also the same as far as I can see. Although I suppose it all depends on if they're running the same software. Given that the MD has Freeview, it must have different software, but is this software built on the MW's grounds, and expanded on with Freeview, or completely different? I guess there's no way to tell unless you've seen it in action, or someone has one that can say. It was so hard to find one that had the 16:9 option too, I looked everywhere for one! I guess a non-PC monitor would've been fine, since they're all 16:9, but have a resolution far too low to use as a PC, so they don't bother with a PC input usually. Why don't they do 16:9 monitors?! 16:10 is just completely pointless.

04-10-2007, 11:37	#14
nineteen Forum Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Ramsbury Posts: 197	It's not until you see a 16:9 and 16:10 set side by side, showing the same channel that the problem becomes obvious. OK. So the Wharfedale went back to Argos - no problem. Back to Comet - Decided to go for either the Daewoo or the Goodmans. The Goodmans has the speakers on the sides, making it shorter and wider, which I think is quite stylish. Both did automatic aspect adjustment, the Goodmans had an aspect override button. They didn't have the remote for the Daewoo, so don't know about that. The Daewoo is HD ready, but HD on a Kitchen based TV is not on my list - and anyway HD on a 768 line system? The Goodmans has more powerful speakers and is £50 cheaper The goodmans had a more natural looking picture than the Daewoo, but who can tell. I've reserved one of the Goodmans Thanks for the support on this. Tim

04-10-2007, 13:59	#15
bobcar Forum Member Join Date: Sep 2004 Posts: 14,718	Quote: Originally Posted by nineteen It's not until you see a 16:9 and 16:10 set side by side, showing the same channel that the problem becomes obvious. OK. So the Wharfedale went back to Argos - no problem. Back to Comet - Decided to go for either the Daewoo or the Goodmans. The Goodmans has the speakers on the sides, making it shorter and wider, which I think is quite stylish. Both did automatic aspect adjustment, the Goodmans had an aspect override button. They didn't have the remote for the Daewoo, so don't know about that. The Daewoo is HD ready, but HD on a Kitchen based TV is not on my list - and anyway HD on a 768 line system? The Goodmans has more powerful speakers and is £50 cheaper The goodmans had a more natural looking picture than the Daewoo, but who can tell. I've reserved one of the Goodmans Thanks for the support on this. Tim Most HD TVs are 768 lines and most of the time most people wouldn't notice any difference compared to 1080 lines. My 50" plasma is 768 lines and very good it is to.

04-10-2007, 18:45	#16
Orbitalzone Forum Member Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Sussex Posts: 12,173	I've noticed that the 19" Goodmans (not sure of model) looks identical to the Polaroid and Hitachi models, all have the same remote and work each other..... the Hitachi and Polaroid look identical and the goodmans was black not silver..... I suspect they're all made by Vestel (come on Nigel, you're bound to say something about this!) None looked that great on the analogue channels that were running but what'd you expect in Currys!

04-10-2007, 23:38	#17
nineteen Forum Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Ramsbury Posts: 197	Well, My 20" 16x9 Goodmans from Comet is installed and is fine. £8 quid off with quidco. It uses an external 24V power supply. The remote control is good and simple, without the overlaid menu's and dual cursor controls I found on the Wharfedale and technika. The sound quality is pretty good. It has a CAM slot too. It's staying. All in all, a good result.

DS Forums

16x10 masquerading as 16x9