Has Topfield already built in obsolescence into the new TF5810?

It strikes me that the Topfield PVR's main strength is in its customizable nature (i.e. user-written applications or TAPs). With the recent channel changes, and new channels coming onboard, it is ridiculous that the current and new models (not yet released) don't have built-in WiFi so that applications and data can be easily updated.

It is such a pain searching around for updated channel logos, new versions of TAPs etc etc. With built-in WiFi, TAPs could be written to automatically download new logos or even update themselves with new versions.

I guess there might be expensive and convoluted ways of adding WiFi, but this is not really satisfactory. If this feature were instantly accessible then we'd see TAP writers considering internet access as a standard process, rather than a complicated bolt-on. Just imagine MyStuff updating its logos automatically or applications downloading extra programme or actor information from the Internet. Science fiction? No - the technology exists today - it's cheap and readily available.

Shirley the new model should have addressed this issue, especially considering that it is going to be quite pricey compared to other PVRs. Heck - they're adding WiFi to everything these days, anyway. Why should the Toppy be different?

In this WiFi-enabled age, hasn't Topfield missed a golden opportunity and lost the plot? Or is it planning another WiFi-enabled model in a year's time after everyone has shelled out for the TF5810? Would that be ethical?

Another anti-Topfield post, just for the hell of it, apparently.

You apparently believe you know all the specs of the TF5810, and you believe that because it doesn't include a feature that's of a minority interest, they've lost the plot?

And that to have a range of models, some with different features, is somehow unethical, because people might buy one model and decide they want a different one later?

It's not a real pain searching around for updates because there's a freely available RSS feed, and a freely available email update service, that covers all the common UK TAPs.

In fact, for people who want to keep up to date with things like TAPs and logos, there are just two sites that together provide just about all the info they need.

Firstly, it's not an anti-Topfield post. I'm simply posing a question. If anything, it's pro-Topfield because I'm trying to help them improve their product.

WiFi is not a minority interest feature. It's in everything from Playstations, Wiis to mobile phones. Combine this with the keen user-base developing TAPs, and it makes WiFi even more relevant to Toppy users compared to other markets.

You seem to imply that the TF5810 might have WiFi. If this is the case, then I'm surprised it has not been mentioned before.

I'm not saying if it's ethical or not to launch a model and then another one a short time later. I'm asking the question. I would say, however, that people might not be expecting models to follow on in quick succession, given the timescales we've encountered so far with product launches in the UK.

You might say that RSS and email are convenient media for updating. However, having used a WiFi enabled STB, there really is no comparison. Updating via email and downloading from a website is so 2005.

How many other PVRs and STBs include wifi?

And does the OP spend all of his time looking for perceived tiny little drawbacks to every part of the Toppy, then spends as much time again trying to blow those things up out of all proportion in an effort to cast the unit and the company in a bad light?

Really tiresome.

No? From the first post:


and


I'll let others decide for themselves.

Judging from product launches in the domestic market, there will be a lot with the next generation. The TF5810 will have to compete with them.


My sole intention is merely to ask a question and to encourage debate; that is the purpose of a forum.

Yes, but in order to access those sites you have to buy an expensive add-on to your computer (internet access, preferably broadband in the case of sites with pictures and big downloads), then you need to discover what those two sites are (which takes time and effort -- my time is very expensive!), and besides which, those lazy TAP programmers probably haven't even made their stuff compatible with the TF5810, so it's a rather pointless exercise.

Your agenda is utterly transparent, and you're fooling no one.

If you really were trying to be helpful it woulnd't be "a serious omission" "lost the plot" and so on.

WiFi is a minority interest as far as set top boxes and PVRs go - hint, no one else makes units with it.

As take up of WiFi in the home has increased, it's also become less useful for media services, because of increased congestion - which is why many people are switching to cabled networks or power line for home media networking.

I'm not implying anything about features in the TF5810 - just pointing out the final spec isn't released, but you're still making your usual assertions about Topfield's shortcomings, without being in possession of all the facts.

RSS and email are pretty convenient ways for people finding out about what's changed, something which you seek to characterise as a chore, when for most TAP users, it's anything but - thanks to the effort put in on various sites to pull all the info together.

It's your tone Ian. Whilst other people would pose your points as a suggestion, you pose it in a combative way with a provocotive and in this case, misleading title. Topfield have had a model with WiFi for over a year, the TF6000. It isn't terrestrial, but it exists. How do you know that the 5810 isn't going to include the same feature, given that the final specification isn't known?

Such as? Which products are launching that will have wifi (true wifi, not just enables so that two units of the same design can talk to each other)?


It is abundantly clear from the piles of negative, provocative and dismissive posts in this forum as to what your agenda is.

Is it half term again?

Ethical doesnt come into it. Its a recorder. Choose one, if you dont like it, get another one. If none of the PVRs on the market have what you would like, its just tough isnt it.

The Topfield is a really crap PVR. But hey if you can be bothered you can fix parts of it off your own bat. And make it do tricks. That is unique. To hear someone belly aching that it cant do this or that, all the time, is stupid.

Given that the Topfield's big selling point is TAPs, the (relatively) inexpensive addition of a WiFi facility is blindingly obvious in terms of being essential. It's the same as any other domestic device which accesses the internet - Playstations, Wiis etc.

Are you saying that, given the predominance of WiFi enabled devices on the market, and given the popularity of the Topfield because of TAPs, that WiFi should not be considered an essential addition?

But Simon Capewell, I've never said that I do know whether or not WiFi will be included in the 5810.

Then how can it be an omission on the 5810?

Essential addition, eh?

I'm saying:

There are lots of people who don't even connect their Toppy to a computer.

Of those who do, by far the biggest number is made up of people who haven't been clamouring on the forums for WiFi to be added.

Topfield already have WiFi models in other markets; I suspect they know a lot more about this business than any of us do, and if there'd been a massive boost to sales by adding WiFi, they'd have rolled it out to more models.

In fact, the latest network model to be launched is wired ethernet - probably for exactly the same reasons I mentioned earlier regarding congestion on wireless networks in built up areas.

So, no, I don't consider WiFi an "essential" option. Nor do I consider Topfield to have "lost the plot" or to be "building in obolesence" or that they'd be doing anything unethical if they actually a range of different models.

Given that most TAPs don't communicate with the outside world, and need to be updated infrequently, why is it "blindingly obvious" that they need WiFi?

Add a feature that costs money - for all users - for the small number that will run TAPs (and all the available information suggests most people don't do that), for the small number of occassions when a TAP might need to grab a new logo for a TV channel?

Sure; that would make commercial sense, wouldn't it?

Features like that will be added because they make financial sense, which means that the cost/benefit is finely calculated; in consumer electronics, even saving a few pennies on the BOM is important.

When the final spec appears, we'll know what Topfield think is important, and what will sell. Until then, we won't, and claiming that they've lost the plot or are somehow being sneaky and unethical is just silly and pointless.

Given current information, it appears to be an omission.

So, when you wrote this:


you actually meant something completely different, did you? Or has the meaning of your first post changed because it's been pointed out that you don't know the full spec?

Just because people haven't posted, doesn't mean there isn't a substantial body of Topfield users who don't want it. I'm sure if people are about to pay out hundreds of pounds for a new model, it's a major issue, especially considering that early adopters are likely to be techies and TAP writers upgrading from the existing model.

There always has to be a first voice to speak about these matters. Luckily I'm that voice; the first of many.


It's funny how nobody else seems bothered about this alleged 'congestion'. I can see 8 networks where I live, and I have no so-called 'congestion'. Is this a personal opinion? I can imagine that a company not wishing to incorporate WiFi might want his sort of information distributed (although I'm not saying that this is the case).

The giants Sony and Nintendo don't seem bothered about this 'congestion'. Are you saying a little STB manufacturer does? If so, how considerate of it.


The vast majority of domestic appliances which access the internet now incorporate WiFi to avoid ugly trailing wires in the living room etc. These wires are also a threat to Health & Safety. I don't think I'd invest in a domestic appliance which seriously threatens me in this way.


You claim a small number of Topfield users run TAPs. Many might disagree.

I see no information to suggest that the new model has WiFi. I can only write about the information which has been provided.

You seem to have ignored my question posed to your statement


Which makes of products are launching with wifi access (products such as PVRs, STBs, dvd recorders, iDTVs)?

Those which require internet access.

On the contrary, the people who keep quiet are usually the ones who are happy with what they've got. It's only the people with problems that complain.

How many threads have you seen in any of the PVR forums where wifi or any kind of PC connectivity is an issue for people? The overwhelming query is 'which PVR is best at a particular price point'.

That's because the predominance of WiFi-enabled devices is a recent issue, and one which will become more talked about as new models are launched.

No, you're just someone with an axe to grind.


And what company would that be? Are you suggesting I have some links with a company that might be in that position? Because you're completely and utterly wrong if you are.

WiFi congestion isn't a myth; if you read the computer press, you'll find plenty of reports about it - due to the fact that there are only 3 channels used for WiFi in the 802.11 spectrum that don't overlap with any of the others.

That's why one of the things included in the 802.11n spec (but sadly not in much kit) is dual radio operation, witht he 5GHz band, to overcome the congestion issues increasily found at 2.4GHz. But don't just take my word for it -read a computer magazine, or websites like NewsWireless, or The Register, wher you'll find plenty of people talking and writing about the shortcomings of WiFi.


No, I'm saying that it's a trend in networking at the moment. I'm also saying that you appear to know little of such realities, and you would do well to research before spouting off.


You're just being utterly ridiculous now, you know. People use ethernet very often so that they can link it to PowerLine. You don't have to have cables snaking across you're room unless you're a fool.

Panasonic is rolling out powerline (not WiFi) across many of its new products. Most major domestic network kit makers are builting lots of kit for PowerLine; Zyxel's new range even incoroporates itin some broadband routers, because they all feel it will give much better results, especially for media streaming, than WiFi.


Let's see - which one of us is it that runs the UK's busiest site for Topfield users and can see from his server logs and databases roughly what proportion of users downloads TAPs?

Ah, that would be me.

Which one of us is it that has good contacts at Topfield's technical team and is in a position to have spoken with them about the sort of support calls they get?

That would be me too.