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Kingston Communications Monopoly over areas of Yorkshire


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Old 10-10-2007, 20:54
AndreTheGiant
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My best friend lives in Beverley and she is not allowed to have a internet connection by a provider other than Kingston . trouble is Kingston are crap. her net connection always fails. and her speeds go from 56K dial up slow to just about passable as broadband slow...

her mate in the same street (who i also chat with) suffers the same problem .

is it legal for kingston to own a monopoly over a residential area .

Thank you
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Old 10-10-2007, 21:08
Carmen Queasy
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I believe this issue has been raised with the European commission or something.

Edit: Yeah, according to the Wikipedia article it has.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kingston_Communications

Seems like BT tried to launch there, and failed.
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Old 10-10-2007, 21:11
AndreTheGiant
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Has it. thank you. i just dont see how a company can tell her she is not allowed to have AOL or Virgin or even BT . it should be her choice . it would be against human rights if all homes in london had to eat Kellogs cereals if they wanted breakfast.

so internet provider should be the same choice, not forcefull.
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Old 10-10-2007, 21:16
Carmen Queasy
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I edited the post

Even if it gets anywhere, it's not likely to cause any sudden changes. You need an infrastructure (wires, routes, exchanges and such) which Kingston already have in place, whereas no one else does (right?).

The only real way is if they had to open up their network to allow other companies to use it (like BT have to do now), but that's open up another problem with cable (Virgin Media etc), since their networks are not open to anyone else (why should Kingston open up their network when other operators don't have to?)
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Old 10-10-2007, 21:25
AndreTheGiant
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Well i can understand they not having to open their networks . but in reality if you can get something off some 1 else then how can they stop you ? plus in Virgin areas of the uk your free to use sky/bt/aol and others.

but thanx for the messages helping me understand.
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Old 10-10-2007, 21:30
Carmen Queasy
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Well i can understand they not having to open their networks . but in reality if you can get something off some 1 else then how can they stop you ? plus in Virgin areas of the uk your free to use sky/bt/aol and others.

but thanx for the messages helping me understand.
Indeed. BT serve most of the country, which is why they had to open up their network to allow other telephone providers to essentially take over their line (although BT will still physically manage and rent out the network, of course - The difference is that the customer has freedom).

I've never been to Hull, but I hear even the street phone boxes are Kingston?
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Old 11-10-2007, 20:27
winactive
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How are people not getting this?

There will be no competition because it is not economically viable. Just read the wikipedia entry referred to earlier.

You can moan all you like about competition and freedom of choice, but this is the fundamental problem with opening things up to competition, in that the most profitable opportunities are fought over, whereas the rest is neglected, unless it is regulated that companies or consortiums landing the chioce contracts are forced to maintain a minimum service level (which is usually run at a loss) in the non-desirable (to the operators) areas.

Fierce competition leads to a dominant supplier or provider effectively paying an over-inflated price for the contract which it then cannot recoup the outlay, the less successful operators are gradually marginalised and taken over or merged until you arrive at a monopoly and then artifical competiton is introduced (usually by a regulator).

Whatever you do, you end up with the same - a monopoly. It's just a question of how long it takes. The economies of scale are then translated into profits when not regulated, but when this is the case, people moan that it is a rip-off and start bemoaning the lack of choice.

Think Sky, think what is now Virgin Media, for the examples in TV (Satellite and Cable). Internet service provision, mobile phone and landlines will end up the same way.
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Old 11-10-2007, 20:39
Shelle
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Yes Hull is entirely Kingston Communications, no BT at all anywhere.

They always had packages where you had free local calls etc back long before all the existing companies.
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Old 12-10-2007, 09:54
OLDSOAK
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Yes Hull is entirely Kingston Communications, no BT at all anywhere.

They always had packages where you had free local calls etc back long before all the existing companies.
Indeed. I can remember when a KC telephone subscriber never had to pay for ANY local calls EVER as the 'free call allowance' on sign up was astronomical.
In fact if you stayed 'local' in your calling habits you could talk for as long as you wanted when you wanted to. I remember my parents signing up and it took ages for them to use up their free call allowance. (don't know if that still holds true as I'm now living under a BT infrastructure elsewhere)

As far as the KC monopoly goes...better that than paying the exorbitant prices that BT charge...Okay so the KC broadband service is a bit 'dodgy'...but it hasn't been up and running for as long as the BT package...and BT still have a dodgy system even now.
So I would say to all of the KC dissatisfied B/Band customers...be careful what you wish for!
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Old 12-10-2007, 10:46
winactive
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Indeed. I can remember when a KC telephone subscriber never had to pay for ANY local calls EVER as the 'free call allowance' on sign up was astronomical.
In fact if you stayed 'local' in your calling habits you could talk for as long as you wanted when you wanted to. I remember my parents signing up and it took ages for them to use up their free call allowance. (don't know if that still holds true as I'm now living under a BT infrastructure elsewhere)

As far as the KC monopoly goes...better that than paying the exorbitant prices that BT charge...Okay so the KC broadband service is a bit 'dodgy'...but it hasn't been up and running for as long as the BT package...and BT still have a dodgy system even now.
So I would say to all of the KC dissatisfied B/Band customers...be careful what you wish for!
Absolutely agree!
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Old 14-10-2007, 22:17
Shelle
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As an ex hull resident, I remember the as long as you like local calls - even used to resort to ringing the door bell in order to get the caller off the phone as it was free
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Old 15-10-2007, 00:11
Recharge
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They should be required to open their network as BT are ...
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Old 15-10-2007, 01:00
Fox Mulder
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They should be required to open their network as BT are ...
it is not profitable for other providers to come in so why should they and personally i feel pissed that the local parasite MEP goes crying off to the other parasites in the euro parly about it, if there has to be complaints made then WE have perfectly good (ofcom being the exception to that) bodies that she could have talked to
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Old 15-10-2007, 02:27
Recharge
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it is not profitable for other providers to come in so why should they and personally i feel pissed that the local parasite MEP goes crying off to the other parasites in the euro parly about it, if there has to be complaints made then WE have perfectly good (ofcom being the exception to that) bodies that she could have talked to
Of course its profitable to sell a service over somebody's network, almost every broadband provider in the UK is doing just that ...

As for crying to Europe, I agree.
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Old 16-10-2007, 22:54
AndreTheGiant
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How are people not getting this?

There will be no competition because it is not economically viable. Just read the wikipedia entry referred to earlier.

You can moan all you like about competition and freedom of choice, but this is the fundamental problem with opening things up to competition, in that the most profitable opportunities are fought over, whereas the rest is neglected, unless it is regulated that companies or consortiums landing the chioce contracts are forced to maintain a minimum service level (which is usually run at a loss) in the non-desirable (to the operators) areas.

Fierce competition leads to a dominant supplier or provider effectively paying an over-inflated price for the contract which it then cannot recoup the outlay, the less successful operators are gradually marginalised and taken over or merged until you arrive at a monopoly and then artifical competiton is introduced (usually by a regulator).

Whatever you do, you end up with the same - a monopoly. It's just a question of how long it takes. The economies of scale are then translated into profits when not regulated, but when this is the case, people moan that it is a rip-off and start bemoaning the lack of choice.

Think Sky, think what is now Virgin Media, for the examples in TV (Satellite and Cable). Internet service provision, mobile phone and landlines will end up the same way.

wow mate sorry i didnt mean to make you angry . i just think its a little like communism if you have no choice.

i am sorry if i dont know the ins and outs of the world of Cable and Landline phones. thats why i asked.

What type of electro water pad do i use to put a C4 polish on a Affion marble slab ??

if you don know the answer i suggest never talking down to anyone the way you did to me.
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Old 17-10-2007, 08:51
winactive
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wow mate sorry i didnt mean to make you angry . i just think its a little like communism if you have no choice.

i am sorry if i dont know the ins and outs of the world of Cable and Landline phones. thats why i asked.

What type of electro water pad do i use to put a C4 polish on a Affion marble slab ??

if you don know the answer i suggest never talking down to anyone the way you did to me.
Yeah, it is like communism. Even a free market leads to Hobson's Choice.

Sorry if you thought I was talking down to you. Just because I quote your post doesn't mean I'm directing my point of view at you specifically.

To recap: There is no choice, only ever the illusion of choice.
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Old 17-10-2007, 11:39
chyllyphylly
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i know the story of KC (if this has already been mentioned sorry)

Basicly corporations (councils) had control of phone lines up to 1912, then The General Post Office (GPO) took control of all of them except one. And that became KC
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Old 17-10-2007, 13:29
3dom
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so am i right i thinking that Hull is KC only no BT or VM?
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Old 17-10-2007, 13:44
chyllyphylly
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so am i right i thinking that Hull is KC only no BT or VM?
no BT and sccording to this (http://bbs.adslguide.org.uk/showthre...anded&sb=5&o=0) no cable
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Old 25-10-2007, 10:40
wizzer
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hi all..

i'am from Hull and am a karoo customer, even with the mp taking it to the european courts nothing is going to change.. it's not classed as a monopoly in ofcom eyes as karoo will allow other isp's in the area at a huge price ..what gets me the most is not having bundle package which the rest of the uk can get. Each month i pay out 29 internet 8 meg connect but only receive 4.6 30 phone this is on their cheapest talk plan and sky which is 38. I have rang bt and asked if i could have a bt line installed was told NO without any explanation... rang sky seeing as iam a sky customer all i got is "we are looking into coming in the hull area" but couldn't say when. So stuck with karoo which is a goddam awful isp. I do not class myself lucky to be a customer i have had several problems since switching to 8meg. Karoo are also very big on cutting you off if you use p2p in any form no warning just cut off. To get reconnected you have to send a begging letter telling them you are very sorry and will never do the said action again and all files have been deleted. Sorry for rant just wanted to give people who say we moan a picture of what its like.
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Old 25-10-2007, 12:05
OLDSOAK
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hi all..

i'am from Hull and am a karoo customer, even with the mp taking it to the european courts nothing is going to change.. it's not classed as a monopoly in ofcom eyes as karoo will allow other isp's in the area at a huge price ..what gets me the most is not having bundle package which the rest of the uk can get. Each month i pay out 29 internet 8 meg connect but only receive 4.6 30 phone this is on their cheapest talk plan and sky which is 38. I have rang bt and asked if i could have a bt line installed was told NO without any explanation... rang sky seeing as iam a sky customer all i got is "we are looking into coming in the hull area" but couldn't say when. So stuck with karoo which is a goddam awful isp. I do not class myself lucky to be a customer i have had several problems since switching to 8meg. Karoo are also very big on cutting you off if you use p2p in any form no warning just cut off. To get reconnected you have to send a begging letter telling them you are very sorry and will never do the said action again and all files have been deleted. Sorry for rant just wanted to give people who say we moan a picture of what its like.
"I pay out 29 internet 8 meg connect but only receive 4.6"

I pay a similar amount and only get 3.5...so you ain't so bad really are you? Anyway you should know by now that it is advertised as UP TO 8mbps...nowhere is it said that you will GET 8mbps....people often forget that in thier haste to complain about speeds achieved.

As far as the P2P habits are concerned; Like any ISP/Broadband supplier they have to ensure that ALL of their customer base receive a fair and decent share of the available bandwidth and speed of connection.
Like it or not the fact remains that p2p/torrenting utilities consume HUGE amounts of bandwidth...take a wander around Walton Street market on a Sunday morning to see just how much bandwidth is being sold on stalls in the shape of DVD's/CD's etc! (Why don't Trading standards nick these people selling obviously hookey gear?)

If you use/abuse such p2p torrenting software and it impacts on other users' surfing experience I totally support the ISP's taking steps to prevent or limit their usage.
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Old 25-10-2007, 12:37
wizzer
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my only abuse using torrents was for a tv show which i missed when it was broadcast... i dont download movies or music, i totally agree with your comment about people abusing it, speaking to friends in other parts of the uk they can download virtually anything but thats not my point or issue... basically we should be given the same choice of everyone else and yes 4.6 isnt too bad but thats on a good day most times i end up with dial up speeds. The offers of a free laptop from orange etc we have no chance of getting does that seem fair when the rest of the country can make that decision themselves?.

I may seem like im moaning over nothing but to be given a choice would be wonderful i would love an isp where everything is bundled together at half the price iam paying.
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Old 25-10-2007, 12:49
OLDSOAK
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my only abuse using torrents was for a tv show which i missed when it was broadcast... i dont download movies or music, i totally agree with your comment about people abusing it, speaking to friends in other parts of the uk they can download virtually anything but thats not my point or issue... basically we should be given the same choice of everyone else and yes 4.6 isnt too bad but thats on a good day most times i end up with dial up speeds. The offers of a free laptop from orange etc we have no chance of getting does that seem fair when the rest of the country can make that decision themselves?.

I may seem like im moaning over nothing but to be given a choice would be wonderful i would love an isp where everything is bundled together at half the price iam paying.
Like I said in my initial post on the subject..."Be careful what you wish for"...
I used to be a KC/Karoo customer and now I'm with BT, I have had several ISP's since leaving Hull and NONE OF THEM can shine a torch onto the service I got under Karoo...
Choice is good but it isn't always better!
Think long and wisely about wanting more choice...and think on...if a MEP is involved then you can bet it is in his/her interests FINANCIALLY to get the barriers lifted...(They are probably sponsored by other telecoms companies wanting a slice of KC's cake!)
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Old 28-10-2007, 17:02
LivingDeadMan
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hi all..

Karoo are also very big on cutting you off if you use p2p in any form no warning just cut off. To get reconnected you have to send a begging letter telling them you are very sorry and will never do the said action again and all files have been deleted.

My letter of apology was a classic. I basically said I'll never download 'that' file again . Connection was back on the same day . Needless to say, I use Peerguardian these days and only download TV shows when I've been watching something else and missed it (my video's on the blink).
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Old 28-10-2007, 17:26
OLDSOAK
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It's a pity more ISP's don't take that approach.
No doubt no ambiguity no cries of "they're throttling my connection" go against FUP thus spoiling others' internet speeds and you get cut off!
WTG Kingston Communications!
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