[RichieB92]

Hi,

I have a fairly antiquated set-up and am having trouble recording from Sky. The best I've managed is to get a black and white picture.

I have a CRT Hitachi TV with two scarts.
A PACE SD Sky Digibox with two scarts.
A Panny DMR-E55 DVD Recorder with two scarts.

I have currently got it set-up so that TV connects to DVD Recorder, which connects to Sky box (as per manual). However when recording from Sky only get black and white pictures. Able to record from terrestrial in colour.

I've been into the DVD set-up and change to RGB, but this results in no picture at all. Black and White pictures are given when S-Video is selected.

Any help greatly appreciated.

Cheers

RB92

[Chris T]

It is probably a simple wiring problem - try this:

Skybox has - TV out scart to your DVRs VCR scart

DVR has - TV out scart to your TVs scart AV1.

[RichieB92]

Thanks for the reply Chris.

The current wiring is:-

TV (AV1) -> DVDR (AV1 TV)
Sky Box (VCR SCART) -> DVDR (AV2 Decoder/Ext)

I believe this is the same as your suggestion and it is what it says in the manual also.

I have also connected the second scart on the TV to the second scart on the Digibox, not sure whether this is required, but I had a spare scart lead. But don't see how this could cause any problems.

[Chris T]

Quote:

Originally Posted by RichieB92

The current wiring is:-

TV (AV1) -> DVDR (AV1 TV)
Sky Box (VCR SCART) -> DVDR (AV2 Decoder/Ext)

If your wiring description is correct, swap the scart on the rear of the sky box - you are in the VCR when you should be in TV. This may cause some problems with the options/ and or cable you have selected in the DVR menu.

Rule out any further complications by ensuring your scart cables are fully 21 pin wired and that they work.

[chrisjr]

The problem is that the Sky box is outputting Composite video.

This uses separate pins on SCART to RGB which is why you get nothing if you switch the recorder to RGB mode. S-Video over SCART is a bit of a bodge as it was never really planned for. So it nicks two other connections for it's two components.

The black & white component uses the Composite pin on the SCART and the colour component uses one of the RGB pins. Hence why you get black & white when you switch the recorder to S-Video mode. it is only seeing a signal on the composite pin of the SCART which it is interepreting as the black & white component.

What you need to do is either switch the Sky box to S-Video or the recorder to Composite (may be called CVBS or PAL or just Video).

One other thing. If the Sky box cannot do S-Video or RGB there is little point using the TV out to feed the recorder. In fact this has it's own problems. If you connect the Sky box to the recorder then the TV to the recorder you cannot watch Sky while recording terrestrial TV.

The "normal" connection set up is ...

Sky TV SCART --> TV
Sky VCR SCART --> Recorder

You do not need a direct link from recorder to TV as the Sky box will pass on the recorder signal when you play back a recording

[broadz]

It sounds like it is your DVD recorder that is at fault - if it only allows you to swap between RGB and s-video, and doesn't support composite in (which is what the VCR scart socket on a Sky box outputs) then you either need to try an alternate input on your DVD recorder, send the output to the DVDR from the TV socket on the Sky box, or you could use the s-video output from the Sky box to feed the s-video input on the DVDR (this is what I used to do before I got Sky HD).

You will need an s-video to scart converter, about £10 from Maplins, which has a scart socket on one end (to plug into the DVDR) and three sockets on the other end, the yellow one connects to the s-video connector on the Sky box, and the red and white cables connect to the audio out on the Sky box. This will give a much better, sharper picture than the VCR scart out from the Sky box will, and it will still allow you to use the RGB (TV) scart socket on your Sky box to connect to the TV. If necessary, it also leaves you with a spare scart socket on the Sky box if you ever need to connect it to a VCR.

PS Black and white (sharp) pictures is the norm if you are outputting a non s-video picture into a connection that thinks it is s-video, or sending an s-video picture to an RGB or composite port. The two connections must match at each end - either both s-video or both not s-video.

[RichieB92]

Thanks for the replies everyone. I clearly have plenty to learn. I'll have another look and try your suggestions.

Thanks again.

[Gilson]

Quote:

Originally Posted by broadz

You will need an s-video to scart converter, about £10 from Maplins, which has a scart socket on one end (to plug into the DVDR) and three sockets on the other end, the yellow one connects to the s-video connector on the Sky box, and the red and white cables connect to the audio out on the Sky box. This will give a much better, sharper picture than the VCR scart out from the Sky box will, and it will still allow you to use the RGB (TV) scart socket on your Sky box to connect to the TV. If necessary, it also leaves you with a spare scart socket on the Sky box if you ever need to connect it to a VCR.

Think you've got this a bit wrong broadz? The adapter you are talking about has 4 sockets The yellow red and white and also the S-Video (like a mini DIN) socket. The yellow is composite video and should be left unconnected. As you say connect red and white for adio but use an S-Video cable to connect to the S-Video sockets.

[broadz]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gilson

Think you've got this a bit wrong broadz? The adapter you are talking about has 4 sockets The yellow red and white and also the S-Video (like a mini DIN) socket. The yellow is composite video and should be left unconnected. As you say connect red and white for adio but use an S-Video cable to connect to the S-Video sockets.

The one I bought from Maplins has three sockets at the non-scart end. They yellow one is s-video, mini-DIN not composite, and connects to the s-video out on the Sky+ box. I agree with you that yellow normally signifies a composite socket, but that is not the case on the s-video to scart converter cables at Maplins.

Just found it listed in their online catalogue:

http://www.maplin.co.uk/Search.aspx?...26AJ&DOY=26m10

[Gilson]

Quote:

Originally Posted by broadz

The one I bought from Maplins has three sockets at the non-scart end. They yellow one is s-video, mini-DIN not composite, and connects to the s-video out on the Sky+ box. I agree with you that yellow normally signifies a composite socket, but that is not the case on the s-video to scart converter cables at Maplins.

Just found it listed in their online catalogue:

http://www.maplin.co.uk/Search.aspx?...26AJ&DOY=26m10

Sorry yes I see what you mean, as you say usually yellow is used to denote composite like it is in this S-Video and composite adapter that I have.

http://www.tvcables.co.uk/cgi-bin/tvcables/AD001.html

[RichieB92]

A quick update on this.

Following the advice given I have revisited my set-up and was able to resolve it by leaving all wiring as it is and changing a setting on the DVDR. I had been selecting RGB and S-Video to try to get it to work, but by simply changing the output to video, it has recorded from Sky with coloured pictures and sound!!!

It may not be the best set-up, but it'll do for me for the time being.

Probably wouldn't have tried it if it wasn't for the advice given on the forum, so thanks.

RB

[Scorpio]

Ok Guys, what's going on here? We've all been giving advice on simple setups like this for years and the answer is..................

Provided that the OP has 2 fully wired and working scart leads...................................

Sky TV scart (set to RGB) ---> DVDR AV2 (set to RGB)
DVDR AV1 (set to RGB) ---> TV AV1 (the RGB scart)

No messing with composite or s-video................yes, I know the OP's issue with B/W pics means that he has either mixed his outputs on s-vid etc but we've all been using RGB successfully for years.

Try the above set up, remember that the Sky TV scart is the bottom one of the two!

Rgds,
Scorp

[skinj]

That will stop him recording analouge and watching sky though. DVD->SKY->TV would allow him to record analouge and watch sky or vice-versa.

[Scorpio]

Quote:

Originally Posted by skinj

That will stop him recording analouge and watching sky though. DVD->SKY->TV would allow him to record analouge and watch sky or vice-versa.

Not correct - as long as the DVDR will 'pass through' the Sky signal while the DVDR is recording (say) analog) then this is the correct set up. Most DVDRs now pass through correctly during recording to overcome this very issue.

With your setup, you are passing a composite signal from the Sky VCR scart to the DVDR - with my set up the Sky TV scart passes an RGB signal to the DVDR, much better for clear recording.

Rgds,
Scorp

[skinj]

I've yet to see a dvd/vcr that can record from analouge while at the same time output a different signal out of its scart socket.
I've seen them have a monitor button to allow the scart switching function be turned on/off but that still only allows the output of it's current function ie monitoring the recording of analouge.
While I am aware that the solution you gave allows for RGB recording I cant see, have not seen how this works on machines available in the shops right now.

[skinj]

From memory the Dmre55 also outputted a pin8 switching signal when recording any source. This seemed to cause the sky picture to be over-ridden using the method I suggested. We quite often (on some panasonic models) had to disable pin8 on the lead that connected to the sky box, then use a second scart with rgb out to the tv aswell. In recent Panny's the rgb/pin8 swither can be set to be either on all the time or only when an osd is needed, thus allowing the connection through a sky box.

[gomezz]

Quote:

Originally Posted by skinj

I've yet to see a dvd/vcr that can record from analouge while at the same time output a different signal out of its scart socket.

Strange! I have yet to see one that can't.

[Scorpio]

Quote:

Originally Posted by gomezz

Strange! I have yet to see one that can't.

Many thanks Gomezz, I thought i was going nuts for minute!

Yes, my early E55 won't do it, I got around this by watching Sky over its s-video output. Now I only record (archive) from
Sky HD (or +) at night.

Most recorders now have to be designed to allow pass through to support high quality RGB from digital boxes to the TV without the compromise of having to use the VCR output scart.

Rgds,
Scorp

[skinj]

Quote:

Originally Posted by gomezz

Strange! I have yet to see one that can't.

Which ones?
I'm not trying to say you are wrong but am willing to learn. As far as I know none of the latest Panasonics allow the process as described (ignoring the fact they have no analouge tuner anyway) to work. I know they have freeview built-in but have no idea how you could record freeview while passing Sky through the Scart connection.
Which other machines allow this to happen.
I am genuinley interested as it would allow me to sell more of the correct kit/overcome problems better.

[broadz]

Quote:

Originally Posted by skinj

Which ones?
I'm not trying to say you are wrong but am willing to learn. As far as I know none of the latest Panasonics allow the process as described (ignoring the fact they have no analouge tuner anyway) to work. I know they have freeview built-in but have no idea how you could record freeview while passing Sky through the Scart connection.
Which other machines allow this to happen.
I am genuinley interested as it would allow me to sell more of the correct kit/overcome problems better.

Pretty much all DVD recorders will pass the signal that they are recording to the TV if switched on. So, if the DVDR is switched on and recording BBC1, then BBC1 is what will get sent to the TV via the scart or component connection. Otherwise, how else would you know when to start recording?

However, many will act as a passthru machine if they are recording while switched off (which in effect means you need to set up a timer recording and turn the DVDR off). At the time that the recording is set to start, the machine switches itself into a semi-on state and starts recording from whichever source it is told to record, while still passing through the AV input to the AV output.

Total pain in the arse though. Why would anybody want to mess about with timer recordings and risk either recording adverts before the programme starts, or risk missing the beginning of the programme? Far easier to press record as the programme really starts, and press stop when it finishes. In which case, passthru doesn't happen.

[Scorpio]

Quote:

Originally Posted by broadz

Total pain in the arse though. Why would anybody want to mess about with timer recordings and risk either recording adverts before the programme starts, or risk missing the beginning of the programme? Far easier to press record as the programme really starts, and press stop when it finishes. In which case, passthru doesn't happen.

In fact, some of the early machines achieved 'pass through' by using a button often labelled 'SATMON' for 'satellite monitoring'.

Seems a bit too simple, doesn't it?

Rgds,
Scorp