I can add Bruno to my list of very annoying people who say that they gave 110%. Can't be done; impossible and very irratating.

Bruno also says he gives extra marks because the other judges mark down - how does he know, surely they all vote at the same time. Confused

Bruno's scores come from the heart. Whilst Bruno is being investigated Len should be interrogated as to why he used his casting vote to save Penny instead of Gabby because that was the real travesty of the evening!

You won't get an arguement from me on this one.

Lens voting has gone haywire.

Penny was like a rag doll. Her arms and legs were totally out of sync with each other.

I have no idea why so many people think she is so great.

Voting on what he likes has nothing to do with being impartial. It just reflects the fact that he may like it more than you or Len did because marking is subjective when the standard exceeds a certain level. There is no set penalty on SCD for breaking any particular rule. You could take off all the marks, one mark, two marks, or half a mark and forget the problem. Its not even clear if the other three judges all took off the same penalty as we don't know if they would have marked it as an 8.9 or 10 without the penalty. As there is no rule its not surprising if peiople don't respond the same way. In most group marking situations someone who liked something would mark up to counter what they saw as undermarking or over penalising elsewhere. Thats what Bruno does - because even with the extra lift he thinks its worth more than 32 overall.

The only problem SCD has is that they don't have any group meeting to decide on the overall mark. That might mean they agreed on 34 not 32 as the right total anyway - they just can't get there with only individuals giving out single figure marks unless someone clearly bucks the trend. The BBC then compound the problem by always going to the same person last so that person always has most say in the final score.

I think they have to indicate to the production team, prior to announcing their score to the public, what mark they are going to give.........I`am sure this was discussed last year.

1- After 4 judges make their comments.......the contestant returns to the green room to be interviewed.

2- Judges press score pad to give production team their mark during the dancers interview with Tess

3- Judges announce mark to public

.....If this is the case.......then Bruno being the last to announce his mark is irrelevant.As I said I "think" this was discussed last year.... maybe wrong of course

No, you are right.

Last year Arlene put up a different paddle to her "pressed" score pad.

Let's face it, Bruno has destroyed the whole concept of having judges. He has made a complete mockery of the whole thing.

Do the decent thing Bruno and quit.

You wouldn't agree that though. As there are no rules you would have to invent one. You would have to agree what would be deducted between you which might be a compromise between someone saying nothing and someone saying two marks, You would then all give a performance mark and then take the agreed penalty off the total. As it was it, wasn't clear if the first three judges had knocked 6 off, which was too many ,or 3 and whether as a group they would have decided to knock 4 off or 8. All Bruno can do is go with his instinct that the total they are heading for is too low,

in your opinion as a viewer but not in Len's opinion as a professional judge who was there "live"

High five! Ian choreographed a very simple Samba for Penny, she just walked through most of the steps, Gabby's was far more complicated and her delivery was spot on. I like Penny but Gabby should have stayed.

You are right that would mean he can't adjust his score after the others say theirs . On the other hand if you see everyone else's scribbling or someone says something you can still do it. perhaps he just sees himself as the counter to Craig marking to low and Arlene marking on whatever grounds she prefers?

What a weird thing to say. Of course "in my" opinion - that's why we're chatting about SCD in a forum .. to express "our" personal opinions.

So far, there's nothing in this thread that show's Bruno's judging is not impartial.

The "not impartial" accusation is that he's marking's based on who's dancing, rather than the dance.

But his great "from the heart" enthusiasm was for the dance. And if he marks high to counter low marks from the others, that again does not show he's not impartial, because it's again about the dance.

I think it was a difficult call for Len....and he indicated as much on ITT on Monday, when he seemed to be doubting his decision. Personally I think Gabby is technically better but for me there is just something about Penny, which makes me want to see more.Maybe Penny has that elusive "X-factor" (can`t believe I`v said that on the SCD forum).

Also, it's fairly predictable how the marking's going to go.

Craig and Arlene will give "low" marks and be booed by the audience.

Len will mark high for the weak dancers and collect his cheers, while being tougher on the strong dancers (which still lets him mark high enough to collect his cheers).

I suppose it must be as difficult for the judges as it is for the viewers to not vote for the personalities they warm too. On a lighter not has anyone else noticed that Bruno can't give a ten without punching the air!!

Bruno has never been impartial.

Well, I think his judging is not impartial - he marked Alesha and Matt down for "gapping" during their AS (as all the judges did, and rightly). Brendan and Kelly (as well as the illegal lift!) had a lot of "gapping" during their dance too, so where was Bruno's deduction for that? Last year on ITT, he admitted that he had overmarked either Emma or Louisa (I can't remember!) purely to keep them at the top of the leader board!
I think, if he can't mark purely on the technical aspect of the dance and wants to mark "from the heart", then he should not be a judge - he should "mark from the heart" in the same way that we viewers do - by phoning!

I`v stated in a previous post that SCD is not a Dancing competition.......It`s show business and the marking reflects that:......and as we have seen this week it`s the voting public who have the real power.

Sorry, it's not weird at all - the important bit (and the important difference between what you judge on and what Len judged on) was viewer and professional judge who was there "live"

You describe it as a travesty indicating that there was much to choose between the two, however that was not Len's view as a pro judge judging on (hopefully) the dance as he saw it only feet from his seat. As his comments on ITT indicated, he felt that it was a really, really close call.

Why does it matter so much that he was there "live"?

We often have a better view of the dance than the judges do.

Impartiality is a different sin. If an examiner/judge gives extra marks to the pretty blonde who winks at them or the male with nice chest hair the mark is distorted. and has nothing to do with the level of achievement reached.

Marking highly what you think you have a genuine reason to like is just what examiners in more subjective subjects do. You can ignore some problems when you see something really really good alongside it and you can conclude that the mark should reflect the real quality you have seen not the problems.

Thats different again to giving some credit for something else - like effort or bad luck. The problem with that is that its very unfair if you give Jo Smith marks for trying and that results in John Doe falling down the order becaue of it - or in SCD terms good people going as bad dancers have sympathy votes.

You are right that the judges - particularly last year - tried to counter the public vote but i don't think Bruno was up to that on Saturday. He's not voting for Kelly because he fancies her and he's not voting for some non dancing story and distorting who goes. He is trying to get the vote he thinks right for what he's just seen and he's not doing anything good examiners wouldn't do.


If there is a fault, its that the judges don't seem to have agreed what to do after Brendan did the same thing last year - but as they didn't Bruno can only do what he thinks looks right.

Can you really state that, presumably NOT having sat in those judges seats which are feet from the floor AND give an unrestricted view of the whole floor area (apart from the cameraman with St Vitus Dance). I would suggest that it is THEY who have the better view, considering the closeness of the competitors. They also have the advantage of being able to focus on whichever part of the couple they want, rather than what the director wants. For example, they can watch the footwork when they want, rather than us having to watch the top halves whilst there is some fancy footwork going on below.

We get to see only what the director decides to show us, which might not be the area which the judges will be focussing on.

I agree with you. However at least Len was consistent. I think he had originally given Penny the higher marks. I think (but may be wrong) that Arlene and Craig reversed their original views (Arlene gave Gabby higher but saved Penny and Craig the other way round. All a bit puzzling.

Please tell me you don`t really believe that ....

Mossy .. NO ONE posting on this forum was at the live show. If attending the live show was a pre-requisite for being able to express our personal opinions on here then this would be a very quiet forum indeed. Are you going to make it your business to tell all the visitors to the forum that their thoughts don't carry any weight because they didn't watch it live .. how dull.