I usually like Len, but it does irritate me that he never marks lower than a 6. It means good dancers like Matt or Gethin are sometimes only one mark ahead of dreadful ones like Kate, whereas in reality the difference is much bigger. He did the same thing last year, marked Georgina an 8 (I think) for her foxtrot, which while a vast improvement, was not that good. Carol got the same mark for a superior dance.

I was a Louisa and Vincent supporter last year but imho the ONLY dance last year that deserved a 10 pre finale was Mark's AT.
I think its ridiculous that Kelly and John have already got a 10. I do think John was amazing last night and in that respect im happy for him but none of the celebs deserve a 10 for any of their dances so far . And before you say im bitter i am not. Alesha is my favourite but i dont think she deserves a 10 yet either.

me neither - there's not been one ten dance yet for me (Kelly and Brendan's AS could have been.... but let's not go there)

to say that John's salsa was the best dance of the series shows that Len is

a) on drugs
b) drunk
c) suffering early onset dementia
d) had a nasty blow over the head

..... or he likes his blokes. And I thought only Craig and Bruno were this way inclined.

I agree with all of that. John's Salsa was great, but his shoulders were hunched. And compare that with Mark's Salsa last year, which only got a nine from Len. I'm not a great Kelly and Brendan supporter, but their 10 dance save for the illegal lift was better. Len clearly has some issues he needs to sort out.
Last edited by lach doch mal : 11-11-2007 at 16:15

I think Len has lost it this series. He praises Kate just for showing up, but has a go at Letitia saying at this stage of the competition, she should be upping her performance, which is correct but the same goes for Kate.

I agree that Len's marking has been weird this series. I don't think it's so much that he likes blokes but that he champions them because he appreciates how difficult it is to lead. My main criticism is that he doesn't award very low marks. This leads, as others have said to him awarding the same mark to a good dancer and a poor one. I think K&B's AS was the best dance of the series apart from breaking the rules and that no dance so far has merited a '10'.

I think Len must have seen something in John's Salsa that I couldn't see - how else a 10! What is annoying me a lot this year is his shouting over the other judges mostly with "oh give over .................." It has got to stop because I think it is ruining this show.

I don't mind him appreciating the blokes, but to say that it was the best dance of the series was ridiculous. I just watched it again, and it isn't. I was the one, who was really annoyed about all this hype about the females, but don't award 10's "nilly willy", because then they don't mean anything anymore.

I'm not saying I would have awarded 10, but then I believe Craig's 8 undermarked him.

Is your assertion that John's salsa wasn't the best dance of the series your opinion or fact? Are you a judge on par with Len or an expert on par with Lilia for example. Arlene and Bruno too were swept away by John's peformance, are they all wrong?

When John has failed to come up to scratch he has accepted criticism with good grace, unlike many of the others. Why is it so difficult to give credit where credit is due when he delivers the goods?

No I'm not an expert you are quite right there. Are you one?

And have you not known the judges to award wrong scores before (particularly when they weren't awarded to your favourites ). I fully believe that John's salsa was good, no question, but it wasn't worth a ten (that was my point). I don't know if Craig undermarked him, because Craig generally gives lower marks than the other judges. Of course Len might have to give him a ten, because he clearly overmarked other couples.

I assume you are a vivid John supporter, well I'm not against them, but this is my opinion.

No I'm not an expert, which is why I listen to the judges. And please don't roll your eyes at me, I've done nothing to warrant that. I asked if you were an expert because you stated as fact that John's salsa wasn't the best of series; no imo, but a categorical "it isn't."

I do support John, but have no problem acknowledging that when it comes to ballroom his posture lets him down and yes last week I believe Craig undermarked him; but then Craig, himself, admitted this on ITT.

I love Alesha's performances, she is at least an equal favourite for me. I also admire the progress Gethin and Matt have made.

We could see these three in the final and I would have no argument with that, I just hope John stays in until he is genuinely the worst dancer on the night and I think that is highly unlikely whilst Kate and Kenny are still in the competition.

I think Len owes an explanation for the JB 10. He was extremely upset with Bruno over the other infamous 10. I don't see his as any different. Not saying I didn't like Digger's dance, just that it was not a 10 and it was not the best dance of the series - there are at least 3 or 4 dances that could be said to be the dance of the series and that wasn't one of them.

I'm sorry if my "roll eyes" icon offended you, although I think you are bit sensitive. I could have been easily offended by your question if I was a professional judge, which I'm sure you knew the answer to. Peace man.

Anyway, as I said before, I don't think John presented a bad dance. However, I maintain my right to have a polite opinion on this forum and to voice it. I did not attack your favourite on his looks (I actually defended him on that before), but I think he was overmarked (maybe only by one point, but there you go). I actually like John and I think he is a good enough dancer. He has a nice personality and you are right, he is accepting criticism with good grace. That doesn't stop me (despite the fact of not being a judge) from thinking that the 10 wasn't warranted. Are you suggesting that only professional judges are allowed to express an opinion on here?

Hope this doesn't offend you.

Quite. Double standards or what!

tbf Bruno gave a 10 despite Brendan and Kelly breaking the rules which is where the controversy arose.

I believe if anyone else has deserved a 10 it would be Alesha last week. I couldn't believe it when I heard that Matt had gone wrong. Cannot think of any other dances that bettered John's salsa performance.

He'll no doubt come back down to earth next week, when he has to tackle ballroom again, but for now from me and quite a few others it's "Well done, Digger."

Len is trying to be Mr Nice guy to the poorer contestants and to encourage them which is why he gives extra marks to them.He goes for cheap popularity with the audience,
after they have booed Craig or Arlene he gets the cheers for higher marks.

We have to face it , this is NOT STRICTLY a dancing contest but one of building viewing audience.

I always think that the only 'real' 10s are the ones that Craig gives out. If it's enough for Craig, it's gotta be pretty good.

Absolutely, I agree with you

Not at all, we all have opinions, and we'll all see a little bit more in our favourites and a little bit less in others, than is actually there.

I just find it more than a coincidence that when John struggled a bit nothing was said, but when he turned in a good performance all the detractors crawled out of the woodwork.

I'm not including you in this category, but how odd that the week he shares top spot on the leader boards, his first hate thread appears.

(proffers hand - no hatchets to bury here)

"Well accepts hand gracefully". Honestly, I can see us celebrating when he finally performs in the final. I honestly understand your frustration, and it's probably human nature that some of us (the non-John haters or non-vivid supporters) haven't said anything on here, when he was undermarked. I really want him to do well, and he more than deserved to stay in on his performance (the man can move rhytmically and we need him). It's all Len's fault I say, ...... and Craig's for not giving a 9.

That's not quite true. I only ever vote for Alesha but last week I voted for John as I felt he was undermarked, especially by Craig. However I don't think he deserved a 10 for his salsa, although I agree it was a good dance and worthy of high scores.

Most people seem to talk about the performance of their faves and any controversy at the end of each show. We've had liftgate, capegate, Gabbygate and tengate in the last 2 weeks, and the week before there were so many contestants and performances to talk about so comments got lost in the plethora of threads.

I however believe that this 10 is going to lead to a backlash of sorts and if he isn't in the top 4 next week, he'll end up in the bottom 2 again, which will be a shame. But at least he'd have had a good innings by then.

Not 100% of the time but almost always, yes!


Has John got a hate thread? what a shame - have to say I haven't seen it if you mean a specific one. Edit: unless you mean this one...

I was actually a bit cross (and said so) last week because (though I make no claims to be an expert) his foxtrot looked much better to me than some of the marks made it out to be (glad Craig apologised) - that said I think the 10 was overmarking. It was really good, I'm not convinced it was perfect.

Either way I like John a lot. I hope he doesn't suffer a backlash from Len being, well, Len.

That didn't happen to Matt Dawson or Louisa Lytton last year.

I think John's ability is consistently under-rated on this forum. At latin he's the best of the men, and only Alesha overall is better at latin, Although John was better last night.

I still agree with Len - best dance of the series so far!

No paso - I wasn't including you in my comments, and of course we all look at our own favourites through rose tinted specs, it's also bound to be disappointing if they turn in a below par performance, but surely we should all be able to look at another competitor, particularly one who has had to dance off twice and be pleased when they have a bit of success.

Look and listen
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UKLNR...16613B&index=6


Hi Sarah - I know you're one of the posters who respects John and his attitude, and no I don't mean this thread - I mean this one.
http://www.digitalspy.co.uk/forums/s...d.php?t=691683

I feel some of the comments here were just poison.

Oh that one!

I'd forgotten about it - to be honest I didn't see it so much as a hate thread as someone displaying their enormous ignorance but I see what you mean.

Ahh well - he's through to fight another day! That's the main thing