The worst thing about Len is he shows absolutely no respect of other judges' comments, just look at his facial expression when other judges were talking, this is totally unacceptable. The fact that they hire him to the DWTS has changed the good old Len forever
Fed up with len
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Originally Posted by luckyforest:
“The worst thing about Len is he shows absolutely no respect of other judges' comments, just look at his facial expression when other judges were talking, this is totally unacceptable. The fact that they hire him to the DWTS has changed the good old Len forever”
“The worst thing about Len is he shows absolutely no respect of other judges' comments, just look at his facial expression when other judges were talking, this is totally unacceptable. The fact that they hire him to the DWTS has changed the good old Len forever”
I wouldn't be surprised if he is not invited back to DWTS after the last show. Americans can criticise their president, but nobody else can (for most of the States anyhow). Also, he was very grumpy and critical for that show - not as lovey dovey as usual to the 'stars'.
Originally Posted by luckyforest:
“The worst thing about Len is he shows absolutely no respect of other judges' comments, just look at his facial expression when other judges were talking, this is totally unacceptable. The fact that they hire him to the DWTS has changed the good old Len forever”
“The worst thing about Len is he shows absolutely no respect of other judges' comments, just look at his facial expression when other judges were talking, this is totally unacceptable. The fact that they hire him to the DWTS has changed the good old Len forever”
Perhaps his expression is because the other judges sometimes talk a whole lot of ***************!!!!!
Originally Posted by Austen1984:
“I didn't enjoy the dance that much - but Len was right in so far as it was a brilliant cuban salsa style, which none of the others had.
Alesha was AMAZING, but perhaps to our more modern dance/hip hop style eyes - because Arlene was right about the feet - she wasn't using her feet exactly how a salsa dancer would use them.
Funnily enough one of the friends I was watching the show with is Cuban - and he was blown away with Jons dance, even though it left me a bit non-plussed.”
“I didn't enjoy the dance that much - but Len was right in so far as it was a brilliant cuban salsa style, which none of the others had.
Alesha was AMAZING, but perhaps to our more modern dance/hip hop style eyes - because Arlene was right about the feet - she wasn't using her feet exactly how a salsa dancer would use them.
Funnily enough one of the friends I was watching the show with is Cuban - and he was blown away with Jons dance, even though it left me a bit non-plussed.”
You see, that surprises me, because I didn't think that there was anything about John's upper body in particular which was remotely salsa, never mind 'Cuban'.
Two Colombians and one Costa Rican were in agreement with me. (OH all right, I agreed with them
) The Cuban/Scot just said 'No,no.no.no.no.no.no.no.no'. The other 5 Scots had mixed views varying from 'Great dance' to 'He's going to fall on top of her and flatten her'.(Jocularity aside, all references to nationality are true)
P.S. Alcoholic beverages were imbibed by all prior to viewing
Originally Posted by luckyforest:
“The worst thing about Len is he shows absolutely no respect of other judges' comments, just look at his facial expression when other judges were talking, this is totally unacceptable. The fact that they hire him to the DWTS has changed the good old Len forever”
“The worst thing about Len is he shows absolutely no respect of other judges' comments, just look at his facial expression when other judges were talking, this is totally unacceptable. The fact that they hire him to the DWTS has changed the good old Len forever”
Originally Posted by kaycee:
“Perhaps his expression is because the other judges sometimes talk a whole lot of ***************!!!!!”
“Perhaps his expression is because the other judges sometimes talk a whole lot of ***************!!!!!”
As pointed out by Karen this morning on BBC.
Craig criticised Kenny and said he didn`t do any heel leads, Len disagreed with him. Is it any wonder Len gets frustated?
Karen agreed with Len and said Kenny did all heel leads and was undermarked whereas Kelly was on her toes all through her dance and gets a 9.
Why did Len go on and on about how neither Matt nor Penny deserved to be in the bottom two?
The scores they gave say a completely different story
Len's bottom 2
Kate 6
Letitia / Matt / Penny 7
Arlene's bottom 2
Kate 4
Letitia / Matt / Penny 6
Bruno's bottom 2
Kate 5
Kenny / Letitia / Penny 6
So in fact 3 of the judges put Penny (tied) in the bottom 2 and two of them put Matt there.
Obviously all the judges agreed on Kate, but only Craig had Kenny in his bottom two.
I don't think it is the GBP who is providing the shock results.
The scores they gave say a completely different story
Len's bottom 2
Kate 6
Letitia / Matt / Penny 7
Arlene's bottom 2
Kate 4
Letitia / Matt / Penny 6
Bruno's bottom 2
Kate 5
Kenny / Letitia / Penny 6
So in fact 3 of the judges put Penny (tied) in the bottom 2 and two of them put Matt there.
Obviously all the judges agreed on Kate, but only Craig had Kenny in his bottom two.
I don't think it is the GBP who is providing the shock results.
Whilst I agree that Len has been a touch unpredictable this series, he certainly wouldn't be my first choice to go - that honour is shared jointly by Bruno & Arlene.
Bruno just seems to have become a cartoon character now, & is extremely difficult to take seriously. Arlene is far too preoccupied with shoehorning some alliterative nonsense into here critique to worry about whether what she's saying makes any sense at all - it's embarassing & needs to be stopped.
On the whole Craig does a reasonable job - so he's not in my bottom two...
Bruno just seems to have become a cartoon character now, & is extremely difficult to take seriously. Arlene is far too preoccupied with shoehorning some alliterative nonsense into here critique to worry about whether what she's saying makes any sense at all - it's embarassing & needs to be stopped.
On the whole Craig does a reasonable job - so he's not in my bottom two...
Originally Posted by Austen1984:
“I didn't enjoy the dance that much - but Len was right in so far as it was a brilliant cuban salsa style, which none of the others had.
Alesha was AMAZING, but perhaps to our more modern dance/hip hop style eyes - because Arlene was right about the feet - she wasn't using her feet exactly how a salsa dancer would use them.
Funnily enough one of the friends I was watching the show with is Cuban - and he was blown away with Jons dance, even though it left me a bit non-plussed.”
“I didn't enjoy the dance that much - but Len was right in so far as it was a brilliant cuban salsa style, which none of the others had.
Alesha was AMAZING, but perhaps to our more modern dance/hip hop style eyes - because Arlene was right about the feet - she wasn't using her feet exactly how a salsa dancer would use them.
Funnily enough one of the friends I was watching the show with is Cuban - and he was blown away with Jons dance, even though it left me a bit non-plussed.”
I was also watching with a group of cuban salsa dancers (some very, very good dancers); all loved John's dance (very rude about all the others; even if they did concede that Alesha danced well). They couldn't believe the 10 but as they think the programme is silly, they were happy that it got the top salsa score.
I posted quite a long post re. Len over on Karen's Breakfast tv thread. I like Len and I think he gets annoyed when the other judges comment on ballroom technique incorrectly or totally miss a lack of technique.
I'm happy for Len to act as a judge who comes from a ballroom dance teacher background and acknowledge the improvement week-on-week a dancer makes. He does this for the dancers lower down the cumulative leaderboard but what I want him to do is penalise the top-three when they don't show a high level of ballroom dance technique (surely their journey).
Originally Posted by fern3:
“Why did Len go on and on about how neither Matt nor Penny deserved to be in the bottom two?
The scores they gave say a completely different story
Len's bottom 2
Kate 6
Letitia / Matt / Penny 7
Arlene's bottom 2
Kate 4
Letitia / Matt / Penny 6
Bruno's bottom 2
Kate 5
Kenny / Letitia / Penny 6
So in fact 3 of the judges put Penny (tied) in the bottom 2 and two of them put Matt there.
Obviously all the judges agreed on Kate, but only Craig had Kenny in his bottom two.
I don't think it is the GBP who is providing the shock results.”
“Why did Len go on and on about how neither Matt nor Penny deserved to be in the bottom two?
The scores they gave say a completely different story
Len's bottom 2
Kate 6
Letitia / Matt / Penny 7
Arlene's bottom 2
Kate 4
Letitia / Matt / Penny 6
Bruno's bottom 2
Kate 5
Kenny / Letitia / Penny 6
So in fact 3 of the judges put Penny (tied) in the bottom 2 and two of them put Matt there.
Obviously all the judges agreed on Kate, but only Craig had Kenny in his bottom two.
I don't think it is the GBP who is providing the shock results.”
I agree and the way the poiint scoring is done one point can make all the difference and of course the higher tehscore by the judges come sin to play if there is a draw for teh bottom two in the voting.
Originally Posted by paradigm25:
“I'm not saying I would have awarded 10, but then I believe Craig's 8 undermarked him.”
“I'm not saying I would have awarded 10, but then I believe Craig's 8 undermarked him.”
No, I think 8 was about right. The routine was fantastic, his rhythm was good, but his upper body looked well dodgy, and his timing wasn't as precise as Alesha's.
Originally Posted by paradigm25:
“Are you a judge on par with Len or an expert on par with Lilia for example. Arlene and Bruno too were swept away by John's peformance, are they all wrong?”
“Are you a judge on par with Len or an expert on par with Lilia for example. Arlene and Bruno too were swept away by John's peformance, are they all wrong?”
Well, considering none of the judges know anything about salsa, I think you're overhyping their marks.
Originally Posted by paradigm25:
“When John has failed to come up to scratch he has accepted criticism with good grace, unlike many of the others. Why is it so difficult to give credit where credit is due when he delivers the goods?”
“When John has failed to come up to scratch he has accepted criticism with good grace, unlike many of the others. Why is it so difficult to give credit where credit is due when he delivers the goods?”
Yes, his attitude has been great. But 10 was over-marking. 9 would have been generous, 10 is just ridiculous.
Originally Posted by DavidJames:
“No, I think 8 was about right. The routine was fantastic, his rhythm was good, but his upper body looked well dodgy, and his timing wasn't as precise as Alesha's.
Well, considering none of the judges know anything about salsa, I think you're overhyping their marks.
Yes, his attitude has been great. But 10 was over-marking. 9 would have been generous, 10 is just ridiculous.”
“No, I think 8 was about right. The routine was fantastic, his rhythm was good, but his upper body looked well dodgy, and his timing wasn't as precise as Alesha's.
Well, considering none of the judges know anything about salsa, I think you're overhyping their marks.
Yes, his attitude has been great. But 10 was over-marking. 9 would have been generous, 10 is just ridiculous.”
So he got one or two more than you would have given him, I don't think personally that makes it ridiculous. Maybe Len was generous but IMO only by about one more.
He probably won't get another 10 so its not really that big a deal IMO.
I learnt a long time ago in a show like this not to dispute the judges too much especially when they are unanimous (as they seem to be consistently with John) as they know alot more about dancing than I do, they are, after all experts.
Originally Posted by NathalieR:
“So he got one or two more than you would have given him, I don't think personally that makes it ridiculous. Maybe Len was generous but IMO only by about one more.”
“So he got one or two more than you would have given him, I don't think personally that makes it ridiculous. Maybe Len was generous but IMO only by about one more.”
Yeah, but the thing is - a 10 should be special. It should be for a performance which takes your breath away, gives you goosebumps, and gets endlessly repeated in "best of" clips.
Originally Posted by NathalieR:
“He probably won't get another 10 so its not really that big a deal IMO.”
“He probably won't get another 10 so its not really that big a deal IMO.”
Tell that to Bruno...
Originally Posted by NathalieR:
“I learnt a long time ago in a show like this not to dispute the judges too much especially when they are unanimous (as they seem to be consistently with John) as they know alot more about dancing than I do, they are, after all experts.”
“I learnt a long time ago in a show like this not to dispute the judges too much especially when they are unanimous (as they seem to be consistently with John) as they know alot more about dancing than I do, they are, after all experts.”
Fair enough, but I'm only disputing because they don't know much about salsa if they think that's a "10".
By giving John a 10 is Len really saying it was better than Mark and Karen's first Salsa performance?
No way!
No way!
Len gets off on the applause for giving a higher mark than Craig and Arlene and he has a huge 'man's man'/sportsman fetish.
Harsh though he can be, I much prefer Craig's use of all his paddles than Len's use of 6-10 only. It does no favours to the dancers - means that to him, superlative performances can be within a couple of marks of something truly mediocre. I agree completely with the comment about Craig's 10s being the most desirable and sought after!
Harsh though he can be, I much prefer Craig's use of all his paddles than Len's use of 6-10 only. It does no favours to the dancers - means that to him, superlative performances can be within a couple of marks of something truly mediocre. I agree completely with the comment about Craig's 10s being the most desirable and sought after!
Originally Posted by DavidJames:
“Yeah, but the thing is - a 10 should be special. It should be for a performance which takes your breath away, gives you goosebumps, and gets endlessly repeated in "best of" clips.
Tell that to Bruno...
Fair enough, but I'm only disputing because they don't know much about salsa if they think that's a "10".”
“Yeah, but the thing is - a 10 should be special. It should be for a performance which takes your breath away, gives you goosebumps, and gets endlessly repeated in "best of" clips.
Tell that to Bruno...
Fair enough, but I'm only disputing because they don't know much about salsa if they think that's a "10".”
OK but so what if he gave one or two more than someone else would have! Its not like the dance should have been a 6! IMO it was a very good dance!
Originally Posted by NathalieR:
“OK but so what if he gave one or two more than someone else would have! Its not like the dance should have been a 6! IMO it was a very good dance!”
“OK but so what if he gave one or two more than someone else would have! Its not like the dance should have been a 6! IMO it was a very good dance!”
I agree, but Len's effectively saying there's no way John could do better, and I think that's OTT.
But ignoring that general point, the scores were very bunched at the top end last week.
If you look at the scores for last week, that 10 put J&N in a first-equal position (with Gethan/Camilla and Kelly/Brendan) with 36 points.
Had Len given a 9, they'd have been 3rd equal (with Alesha / Matthew) with 35 points.
Had he given an 8, they'd have been in 4th place.
So that extra 1-2 points meant a bump of several places up for them, and could have changed the entire result. It's quite possible that John/Nicole could have been in the dance-off, if Len hadn't gone 10-crazy.
So that mark is quite significant, on other words.
Originally Posted by DavidJames:
“I agree, but Len's effectively saying there's no way John could do better, and I think that's OTT.
But ignoring that general point, the scores were very bunched at the top end last week.
If you look at the scores for last week, that 10 put J&N in a first-equal position (with Gethan/Camilla and Kelly/Brendan) with 36 points.
Had Len given a 9, they'd have been 3rd equal (with Alesha / Matthew) with 35 points.
Had he given an 8, they'd have been in 4th place.
So that extra 1-2 points meant a bump of several places up for them, and could have changed the entire result. It's quite possible that John/Nicole could have been in the dance-off, if Len hadn't gone 10-crazy.
So that mark is quite significant, on other words.”
“I agree, but Len's effectively saying there's no way John could do better, and I think that's OTT.
But ignoring that general point, the scores were very bunched at the top end last week.
If you look at the scores for last week, that 10 put J&N in a first-equal position (with Gethan/Camilla and Kelly/Brendan) with 36 points.
Had Len given a 9, they'd have been 3rd equal (with Alesha / Matthew) with 35 points.
Had he given an 8, they'd have been in 4th place.
So that extra 1-2 points meant a bump of several places up for them, and could have changed the entire result. It's quite possible that John/Nicole could have been in the dance-off, if Len hadn't gone 10-crazy.
So that mark is quite significant, on other words.”
Maybe but i am glad JB had a night off from the bottom two. And in any case I'm sure he will be gone soon
I would love to see Len replaced, it is facial expression when someone disagrees with him that gets me, Like a bulldog chewing a wasp
I love to see someone like Marcus Hilton take his place, he should know what he is talking about
I love to see someone like Marcus Hilton take his place, he should know what he is talking about
Originally Posted by fern3:
“Why did Len go on and on about how neither Matt nor Penny deserved to be in the bottom two?
The scores they gave say a completely different story
Len's bottom 2
Kate 6
Letitia / Matt / Penny 7
Arlene's bottom 2
Kate 4
Letitia / Matt / Penny 6
Bruno's bottom 2
Kate 5
Kenny / Letitia / Penny 6
So in fact 3 of the judges put Penny (tied) in the bottom 2 and two of them put Matt there.
Obviously all the judges agreed on Kate, but only Craig had Kenny in his bottom two.
I don't think it is the GBP who is providing the shock results.”
“Why did Len go on and on about how neither Matt nor Penny deserved to be in the bottom two?
The scores they gave say a completely different story
Len's bottom 2
Kate 6
Letitia / Matt / Penny 7
Arlene's bottom 2
Kate 4
Letitia / Matt / Penny 6
Bruno's bottom 2
Kate 5
Kenny / Letitia / Penny 6
So in fact 3 of the judges put Penny (tied) in the bottom 2 and two of them put Matt there.
Obviously all the judges agreed on Kate, but only Craig had Kenny in his bottom two.
I don't think it is the GBP who is providing the shock results.”
Excellent point. I was going to make a related comment. Penny was third from bottom on the judges marks. For Len to say it's totally wrong for her to end up in the dance off is to completely disregard the public vote. If the GBP can't choose to have the dancer the judges put only just above the bottom two in the dance off, then he really doesn't want a public vote at all, and perhaps should consider if he should be on the programme.
On the other hand, I don't think Matt deserved to be there, but that's a different topic.
Originally Posted by zooterkin:
“Excellent point. I was going to make a related comment. Penny was third from bottom on the judges marks. For Len to say it's totally wrong for her to end up in the dance off is to completely disregard the public vote. If the GBP can't choose to have the dancer the judges put only just above the bottom two in the dance off, then he really doesn't want a public vote at all, and perhaps should consider if he should be on the programme.
On the other hand, I don't think Matt deserved to be there, but that's a different topic.”
“Excellent point. I was going to make a related comment. Penny was third from bottom on the judges marks. For Len to say it's totally wrong for her to end up in the dance off is to completely disregard the public vote. If the GBP can't choose to have the dancer the judges put only just above the bottom two in the dance off, then he really doesn't want a public vote at all, and perhaps should consider if he should be on the programme.
On the other hand, I don't think Matt deserved to be there, but that's a different topic.”
You do have a point but to fair all judges say that usually (give and a take a couple of exceptions) when acts are in the bottom two like in X Factor etc. They always say how such and such act don't deserve to be in the bottom 2!
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