For All You Haggis-Bashers Out There

3 of 3

KentishMaid

12-11-2007

Originally Posted by allyfree:
“Finally......

if it wasn't for Scotsmen, you wouldn't have a tv on which to watch SCD or a telephone line for your internet connection to this forum. ”

It is an Italian who is credited with the invention of the telephone

"Italy has hailed the redress of a historic injustice after the US Congress recognised an impoverished Florentine immigrant as the inventor of the telephone rather than Alexander Graham Bell.

Little-known mechanical genius Antonio Meucci was acknowledged as a father of modern communications, 113 years after his death.

Calling the Italian's career extraordinary and tragic, a Congress resolution said his "teletrofono", demonstrated in New York in 1860, made him the inventor of the telephone in the place of Bell, who had access to Meucci's materials and who took out a patent 16 years later."
http://www.theage.com.au/articles/20...8*****146.html

washboard

12-11-2007

Originally Posted by KentishMaid:
“It is an Italian who is credited with the invention of the telephone

"Italy has hailed the redress of a historic injustice after the US Congress recognised an impoverished Florentine immigrant as the inventor of the telephone rather than Alexander Graham Bell.

Little-known mechanical genius Antonio Meucci was acknowledged as a father of modern communications, 113 years after his death.

Calling the Italian's career extraordinary and tragic, a Congress resolution said his "teletrofono", demonstrated in New York in 1860, made him the inventor of the telephone in the place of Bell, who had access to Meucci's materials and who took out a patent 16 years later."
http://www.theage.com.au/articles/20...8*****146.html”

The controversy widens....

KentishMaid

12-11-2007

Originally Posted by MegaDancer:
“but everyone knows there is nothing sexier than a man with great legs in a kilt - especially if there is a breeze or he's dancing!”

I just couldn't get turned on by the flashing of those Y Fronts

Miah

12-11-2007

Originally Posted by washboard:
“I thank you, sarah-flute! :bows:

I think that the whole 'daffodil up the backside' scenario has the potential to draw tears from many an eye.

Other flowers may be seen as even more of a challenge ...

”

Thing is, I'm not sure that sticking a flower up your bahookie is going to impress the judges. Arlene, maybe...

Bruno would probably call the performance 'fragrant' in a wildly over the top way. Len would mumble something about it not being traditional enough and to come back next week with something he could recognise. A petunia, maybe? And Craig would probably say something along the lines of "Chunky, lumpy, really, really nasty daffodil..."

Maybe if Kenny had stuck the thistle between the lips he never kisses with that might have garnered him more support, if only for bravery.

To all those who are a little bit worried/annoyed at his appearance of courting the votes of his country men, seriously, if Kenny's playing that card, so be it. It hasn't worked on me but I can see how improved he is which would be more of a criteria to vote for him. And it really doesn't do for anyone to assume that just because he's going for the Scottish angle that they are the ones keeping him in. There's 5 million Scots, and I bet only a 5th of those vote on Strictly. What's more, the likeliehood of everyone liking rugby, liking Kenny or not voting for their actual favourite dancer, is going to be not too high...

dancingfan

12-11-2007

Originally Posted by washboard:
“Or penicillin, to abuse to the extent that you create monster germs which are resistant to it.... erm, no that's not quite the way it was supposed to go, was it

To address your five points:

1) Agreed

2) Agreed. And if he'd worn the kilt for a ballroom dance, I think your argument would have carried more weight. But the paso??!! Your argument is also more than a little undermined by the fact that he didn't turn up in a kilt on the night; he announced it beforehand, in the traditional 'plead for votes' section AKA 'the chat with Tess after the dance.

3) You may not have personally met anyone who has fallen for the tactic, but that doesn't mean that it's not a tactic. Today's Sunday Mail makes it clear that he's looking for, and claims to need, 'the Scottish vote'. Compare it to the MacDonald brothers on the X Factor last year. The Sunday Mail's sister paper, the Daily Record, had an editorial piece exhorting Scottish viewers to vote for them, essentially 'to put that sassenach Cowell's gas at a peep'. There is, sadly, a Scottish demographic out there which laps up this kind of thing.

4) Nor should I. Except if they announced it beforehand in a 'keep me in to see me dance with a daffodil up my backside next week' kind of way (actually, there might be a huge, not necessarily Welsh, demographic for that one I wonder if Ola is looking at that thistle, and giving thanks for the fact that you posted this AFTER Kenny had danced? )

5) I haven't seen people complain about his accent, more about his courting 'the Scottish vote'. The former is, I think, unnecessarily personal; the latter is fair comment when discussing the tactics which celebrities are using to gain votes (e.g. Kate on GMTV).

For the record, I'm Scottish. Also for the record, I thought his Viennese Waltz to Flower of Scotland was lovely, and that the presentation of the thistle worked beautifully in context. Had he simply appeared last night, in a kilt, dancing to FoS, without any prior announcement about it, I would have been more likely to take both the kilt and the FoS as expressions of his innate patriotism.

It's the pre-publicity that makes me suspicious of his motives; the press coverage doesn't help allay those suspicions.

Also for the record, I believe that 'bashing' is generally regarded as the most humane way of killing haggis after they have been chased the wrong way around the mountainside and are dizzy and disoriented. It's not pretty, but if you're going to be carnivorous, there's always going to be a method of dispatch. However, like most haggis eaters, I am an 'equal opportunities' basher. I also bash neeps - and indeed champ tatties.

”

very well put - pretty much how I feel about it (the pre publicity stunt not the haggis bashing - I quite like haggis

)

Scorgeous

12-11-2007

Originally Posted by washboard:
“I agree with you - part of the joy of SCD is watching people improve. And Kenny has definitely improved.

However, I do believe - for the reasons set out before - that Kenny is actively courting 'the Scottish vote'.

I will freely admit that I have a visceral aversion to such behaviour, on both the philosophical/political level, and on the personal level.

On the philosophical/political level, I believe that people should allow themselves to be judged on their merits (not out of synch with the idea of 'the joy of watching people improve'). Because of that belief, I have difficulty with the idea that people don't seek to be judged on their merits, but look for support based on who they know/are linked to/etc. 'Tribal ties', to be provocatively alliterative.

On the personal level, I was horrified by the number of people here who WERE voting for the MacDonald Brothers last year because they were Ayrshire boys, and it would effing show that effing Simon Cowell!

My view was that:

i) the MacDonald Brothers coudn't effing sing; and
ii) HOW (HOW??!!) were they 'showing' Cowell anything by lining his pockets!!

However, I accept that a fool and his money are soon parted, and that it's their choice to make those decisions. And, I was comforted by the fact that the majority shared my view on the duo. hew:

I stand by the philosophical/political point, however.”

In your opinion the McDs couldn't sing. I thought they were very good, better than eaton road or the un approachables or unconventionals whatever the hell their name was. AND, I'm an Ayrshire girl. I didn't vote for the McDs because they were from where I was brought up, it was because I liked their singing. So, perhaps I'm one of the FOOLS that you're talking about. However, I don't feel like a fool as just using my rights that so many men gave their lives in various wars to give me my right of expression!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

COME ON KENNY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Quizmike

12-11-2007

Originally Posted by allyfree:
“Just for the record....

1. Flower of Scotland is NOT our national anthem

2. Kilts are common dress attire for functions and events - Kenny wore one to get married so he obviously likes it

3. I don't know anyone who votes for him "because he's Scottish"..... the few I know who have voted for him do it for more valid reasons, i.e. he's enjoying the experience, making a huge effort and has shown good progress.

4. I wouldn't care if Gethin danced with a daffodil stuck up his backside should he so desire or if Letitia Dean came out dressed as a pearly queen

5. His accent hurts your poor delicate little ears.... boo hoo.....I've not got the foggiest what John Barnes says most weeks and guess what .... it doesn't bother me

Finally......

if it wasn't for Scotsmen, you wouldn't have a tv on which to watch SCD or a telephone line for your internet connection to this forum.

Now just give it a rest and move on ”

Sorry...not my usual light heartedness...

I'm a bit peeved by this post. I'm English and I'd like to know what caused this post. Where are these "haggis bashers"? Why do you think that you have to talk down to the English in such a way? In answer to your unprompted "points"

1) I know.
2) I know.
3) I do. At least three.
4) Good for you (Letitia is not actually from the East End by the way. Shall I come up with a patronising post about that?)
5) Why single out about his accent? And what has John Barnes got to do with anything??

I take it that this thread has come about from comments elsewhere? Then why not keep those comments in the original place where it is actually relevent? Rather than just some random post saying that everyone hates Scottish people?

For the record, I am 1000% behind independence for Scotland. And I'm not going to list everything invented by English people.

Marge

12-11-2007

Originally Posted by MegaDancer:
“I don't see what the problem is with trying to appeal to the Scottish vote or the English vote or the Irish or Welsh or any other ethnic or nationalistic vote.”

Nor do I. it's just a variation on any of the various 'vote for me' tactics that they all employ.

As an englishwoman born long after all the terrible things that the English have apparently done to the Scots down the ages (sorry not being flippant but history was never my best subject) - can I just say 'can we move on'?

Certain sections in both nationalities seem to delight in digging at each other and I can't see the point. It's no better than assuming that modern day Germans should be hated because of WWII.

I don't hate or dislike anyone on their nationality and I don't like assumptions made about me on the basis of mine. I'm usually against the pink and fluffy forum idea; but in this respect I would say 'yes please!!'

pamelaj

12-11-2007

Originally Posted by allyfree:
“Just for the record....

1. Flower of Scotland is NOT our national anthem”

several millions of us might disagree with that . . . .

still doesnt mean i vote for him tho

(and if he was going to do the kilt thing he'd have been better doing it in full get up on a ballroom week . . . )

xx

hiawatha

12-11-2007

Is it true that genuine haggis contains minced sheeps LUNGS ???????

Sallyforth

12-11-2007

I am not sure Kenny is trying to garner any particular block of votes...although I am sure that, like them all in the competition, he wants them wherever they come from!

IMHO he is simply working with Ola to try and ground his learning experience in something he identifies with.....in much the same way that several of the others have done with their unique takes on particular dances.

MegaDancer

12-11-2007

Originally Posted by Sallyforth:
“I am not sure Kenny is trying to garner any particular block of votes...although I am sure that, like them all in the competition, he wants them wherever they come from!

IMHO he is simply working with Ola to try and ground his learning experience in something he identifies with.....in much the same way that several of the others have done with their unique takes on particular dances.”

You hit the nail on the head.

Dollystanford

12-11-2007

whether it's your national anthem or not, it was a great tune to dance the VW to and he did brilliantly

allyfree

12-11-2007

Originally Posted by Quizmike:
“Sorry...not my usual light heartedness...

I'm a bit peeved by this post. I'm English and I'd like to know what caused this post. Where are these "haggis bashers"? Why do you think that you have to talk down to the English in such a way? In answer to your unprompted "points"

1) I know.
2) I know.
3) I do. At least three.
4) Good for you (Letitia is not actually from the East End by the way. Shall I come up with a patronising post about that?)
5) Why single out about his accent? And what has John Barnes got to do with anything??

I take it that this thread has come about from comments elsewhere? Then why not keep those comments in the original place where it is actually relevent? Rather than just some random post saying that everyone hates Scottish people?

For the record, I am 1000% behind independence for Scotland. And I'm not going to list everything invented by English people.”

I'm a bit at a loss here, QuizMike.... your usual insightfulness seems to be hibernating.

You're absolutely right.... I didn't make up these topics .... they are being touted in many places at the moment and I felt that the issue needed its own thread. It was not intended to insult the English - or any other nation for that matter. It came about as I and several others were getting a bit fed up explaining some of these points over and over again on various threads throughout the forum and it seemed simpler to address them in one place. I'm at a loss as to why you've taken this as a personal slight on all things English

The reference to inventions was merely a light-hearted attempt to show that it was probably the faults of some Scots that these whingers were having to watch him in the first place.

gritty

12-11-2007

Originally Posted by allyfree:
“

The reference to inventions was merely a light-hearted attempt to show that it was probably the faults of some Scots that these whingers were having to watch him in the first place.”

I knew it was light-hearted even from my southern perspective of Kent.

I've never voted for humour before - didn't vote for the kilt even though I thought it worked. But, Kenny's VW made me laugh at the choice of music before he danced and smile with pleasure when he danced so beautifully - I loved the ending and he got our floating vote.

I'm definitely waiting to see what he'll do next and if it works he could get a another vote.

moonglow

12-11-2007

To the poster who says there's nothing sexier than a man in a kilt - you're wrong. I can't stand a man in a kilt, it just makes it look like a man in drag. I work in a predominantly female workplace and every woman there dislikes a man in a kilt. A man in a trouser suit/evening suit,is far more sexier than a man in a kilt. So, not all women are attracted by it.

And I think you'll find the English are far more tolerable of the Scots than the Scots are of the English. A lot of English will support the Scots and vote for Kenny, but if the Scots saw a man wearing the English flag and dancing to a traditional English song, the Scots would vote them out straight away.

Funny old world.

RacerWelsh

12-11-2007

I swear haggis-bashing is a euphamism...........

lach doch mal

12-11-2007

Originally Posted by moonglow:
“To the poster who says there's nothing sexier than a man in a kilt - you're wrong. I can't stand a man in a kilt, it just makes it look like a man in drag. I work in a predominantly female workplace and every woman there dislikes a man in a kilt. A man in a trouser suit/evening suit,is far more sexier than a man in a kilt. So, not all women are attracted by it.

And I think you'll find the English are far more tolerable of the Scots than the Scots are of the English. A lot of English will support the Scots and vote for Kenny, but if the Scots saw a man wearing the English flag and dancing to a traditional English song, the Scots would vote them out straight away.

Funny old world.”

You are so lucky with your workplace, each time I read one of your posts you refer to your colleagues as these exemplars of the world at large. Can I just ask where you work? I might want to join you there

.

I beg to disagree with your assessment of men sexiness in an evening suit, it's boring and it makes them look the same. Give me a man in a kilt any day.

Anyway, I think allyfree this was a very good thread, I'm getting fed up with all this negativity about Kenny's so called vying for Scottish votes. And just because a thread is pro-Scottish doesn't mean it is anti-English.

Angua

12-11-2007

Originally Posted by lach doch mal:
“Anyway, I think allyfree this was a very good thread, I'm getting fed up with all this negativity about Kenny's so called vying for Scottish votes. And just because a thread is pro-Scottish doesn't mean it is anti-English.”

But originally this thread wasn't particularly pro-Scottish is it? It's addressed to "haggis bashers" pointing out the "bleeding obvious" to those who can't see past the fact Kenny is Scottish. I think Allyfree is careful not to play the Nationalistic card from what I've read of his/her posts on other theads, not just this one, and thats why she/he gets peed off with peeps accusing Kenny of it.

I know where both Allyfree & Moonglow are coming from as there are an awful lot of 'roast beef' bashers on the forums too and it's bl**dy irritating whichever direction it comes from

I think Kenny is entitled to ask for the Scottish vote, the Rugby vote and any other vote he fancies to be honest!!
I didn't like that horrible black and silver kilt tho' he should have worn a dark tartan one imho. Mind you he probably didn't get a lot of say in it...sorry slightly off topic there

Mistermind

12-11-2007

It would be understandable if allyfree would be irritated by another round of stereotyping ( 5 million Scots = kilts = FoS = thistle = oat porridge).

In the event I believe Kenny combined very simple material and came out with an elegant invention. If there was an association with Scotland it was ingenuity and merit, far from stereotyping.

allyfree

12-11-2007

Originally Posted by Angua:
“ But originally this thread wasn't particularly pro-Scottish is it? It's addressed to "haggis bashers" pointing out the "bleeding obvious" to those who can't see past the fact Kenny is Scottish.”

Thanks, Angua

It wasn't intended to be pro or anti-anyone which is why I couldn't understand Quizmike's reaction. ..... (I'm female, btw)

Surprised moonglow has surfaced again, though .... last post I read from him/her displayed a promise never to darken these "pathetic" threads again

Quizmike

13-11-2007

Originally Posted by allyfree:
“I'm a bit at a loss here, QuizMike.... your usual insightfulness seems to be hibernating.

You're absolutely right.... I didn't make up these topics .... they are being touted in many places at the moment and I felt that the issue needed its own thread. It was not intended to insult the English - or any other nation for that matter. It came about as I and several others were getting a bit fed up explaining some of these points over and over again on various threads throughout the forum and it seemed simpler to address them in one place. I'm at a loss as to why you've taken this as a personal slight on all things English

The reference to inventions was merely a light-hearted attempt to show that it was probably the faults of some Scots that these whingers were having to watch him in the first place.”

Hiya Allyfree,

Just to let you know that yesterday I was grumpy

I hadn't seen any other posts about Scotland, so reading this cold, it just looked like you were trying to wind the English up. I realise that this is not the case, and apologise.

Viva L'Ecosse, as they say in Germany

Chilli Dragon

13-11-2007

Originally Posted by RacerWelsh:
“I swear haggis-bashing is a euphamism...........”

I've never bashed my haggis.

BuddyBontheNet

13-11-2007

Originally Posted by Quizmike:
“Viva L'Ecosse, as they say in Germany ”

Only just got this - didn't read it properly the first time LOL!

allyfree

13-11-2007

Originally Posted by Quizmike:
“Hiya Allyfree,

Just to let you know that yesterday I was grumpy

I hadn't seen any other posts about Scotland, so reading this cold, it just looked like you were trying to wind the English up. I realise that this is not the case, and apologise.

Viva L'Ecosse, as they say in Germany ”

No probs

I understand..... it's getting a bit fraught in here at the moment

3 of 3