Spoiler
Links to watch and read about DWTS!
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Originally Posted by TylerTango:
“How Len didn't give Nicole a 10 was disgraceful...”
“How Len didn't give Nicole a 10 was disgraceful...”
Totally agree. And it's not her fault that she's the most talented dancer there. I find it funny when people bash her for being there, why don't they blame the producers instead? Some people like to see good dancing and not just a bunch of Kate Gosselins :yawn:... otherwise it should just be called Strolling with the Stars
Originally Posted by internMD:
“Totally agree. And it's not her fault that she's the most talented dancer there. I find it funny when people bash her for being there, why don't they blame the producers instead? Some people like to see good dancing and not just a bunch of Kate Gosselins :yawn:... otherwise it should just be called Strolling with the Stars”
“Totally agree. And it's not her fault that she's the most talented dancer there. I find it funny when people bash her for being there, why don't they blame the producers instead? Some people like to see good dancing and not just a bunch of Kate Gosselins :yawn:... otherwise it should just be called Strolling with the Stars
”
Watch professional dance contests then.
Originally Posted by Lili27:
“Dances for next week. The marathon is back.
”
“Dances for next week. The marathon is back.
Spoiler
Yikes! Tough going.
Spoiler
Older interview from 4/8 Bruno on George Lopez. Lot's of Kate talk.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oy6z4cWwp6g
Originally Posted by Strictly_Irish:
“Watch professional dance contests then.”
“Watch professional dance contests then.”
Why knock someone just because they prefer to watch someone who is "good" rather than someone who is "bad"?
As for professional dance contests - you may get these to watch in the USA, but not on British tv (apart from 3 shows by Eurosport at Christmas). Unfortunately, unlike other countries Brit media hasn't yet realised that dance is actually a sport.
Originally Posted by Strictly_Irish:
“How Nicole is in the competition is disgraceful. He's rightfully marking her very hard.”
“How Nicole is in the competition is disgraceful. He's rightfully marking her very hard.”
Change the record why don't you?
Mya, Kristi, etc.. etc..
Originally Posted by Lili27:
“Older interview from 4/8 Bruno on George Lopez. Lot's of Kate talk.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oy6z4cWwp6g”
“Older interview from 4/8 Bruno on George Lopez. Lot's of Kate talk.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oy6z4cWwp6g”
I didn't realise that that week DWTS was the number one show in the US and beat American Idol. Simon Cowell must have loved that...
Originally Posted by Force Ten:
“I didn't realise that that week DWTS was the number one show in the US and beat American Idol. Simon Cowell must have loved that...”
“I didn't realise that that week DWTS was the number one show in the US and beat American Idol. Simon Cowell must have loved that...
”
That is why Len felt that Simon made a dig at DWTS a couple of weeks back criticizing the band (although I agree there is something about the band that is off this season). Len said Simon was jealous because DWTS is beating Idol in the ratings and that has never happened before.
Originally Posted by TylerTango:
“Change the record why don't you?
Mya, Kristi, etc.. etc..”
“Change the record why don't you?
Mya, Kristi, etc.. etc..”
I didn't watch it with Kristi but I said the exact same about Mya thabk you very much. And anyone who has experience. I don't like it in these amateur shows.
I'm very happy to see Len give Nicole's 6s and 8s as I was with Mya.
Beginners all the way.
Originally Posted by kaycee:
“Why knock someone just because they prefer to watch someone who is "good" rather than someone who is "bad"?
As for professional dance contests - you may get these to watch in the USA, but not on British tv (apart from 3 shows by Eurosport at Christmas). Unfortunately, unlike other countries Brit media hasn't yet realised that dance is actually a sport.”
“Why knock someone just because they prefer to watch someone who is "good" rather than someone who is "bad"?
As for professional dance contests - you may get these to watch in the USA, but not on British tv (apart from 3 shows by Eurosport at Christmas). Unfortunately, unlike other countries Brit media hasn't yet realised that dance is actually a sport.”
Who knocked anyone? I'm tired of people going on about how the "best dancer" should get 10s and win etc so I'm making a point. How is it fair the someone like Jake or Chad shouldn't win because someone professional like Nicole (and Evan to a slightly lesser extent) is there? Makes the show pointless.
There are plenty of places you can watch professionals dance on YouTube. This is just a celeb show & it should be beginners that improve. IMO.
There is a heated discussion about Evan and Nicole; have they had ballroom/latin training prior to appearing on DWTS?
No they haven't. Evan's only experience would be as an ice skater, and Nicole would have had some dance training for performance in the Pussy Cat Dolls, but not ballroom or latin specifically.
I have a different thought about the ringer vs the the celebrity with absolutely no dance training.
At first I was very against someone with prior to training of any kind of dance or movement being allowed to participate. But after watching the show for many years I have changed my stance. (Sorry for long post but I would like to make some points).
Here is why.
1. I believe that the producers gather up celebrities who have different levels of experience on purpose. If no one had any experience and they were all lackluster and struggling the posts would go like this "there aren't any good dancing on this year, I am losing interest, why can't they get better celebrities, i.e. better dancers." People want to be dazzled. The celebs with some kind of training raise the bar very high.
2. The public will almost always champion the celebrity who improves every week who has never had any kind of training. Especially if they are able to combine an endearing and likeable personality along with that effort. I believe it actually benefits them to be competing with a a celebrity who has experience because if they only compete with other celebrities who are at their level or slightly worse I don't think they are carried by the public with as much interest. It's a Sea Biscuit story. People love a story of overcoming the odds. The best dancer almost never wins DWTS.
3. The celebs who have dance or some type of experience are held to a much higher standard led by Len. I do believe the public follows his lead. I remember when Kristi Y. was criticized for being a ringer and that it was expected she would do well. People complained she was a good dancer but boring. Then she did a freestyle that was absolutely incredible and she outdid herself. When she did that freestyle she brought her personality as well her ability and I think she deserved her win because she brought forth a side of herself we hadn't seen up to that point.
4. I think many people vote for the couple or even a pro and not just the celebrity. Pros who are saddled each season with a clunker finally get someone good and the public wants to see that pro win. Or they at least are voting for the pro and celeb and the working dynamic and partnership. The teamwork. I think of Chris and Ola or Ty and Chelsie and how well they worked together. We vote for choreography and that is voting for the pro and their talents. The pre roll-in package and how the partners sell the dance. As Tony said on Jimmy Kimmel, each pro usually rotates good and bad partners. Derek has come under fire because he always seems to get a good dancer and it is his time to have a rhythm challenged partner to drag around on the floor. The experienced celebs can suffer backlashes from their dance experience so having experience doesn't always translate into votes.
5. Because it is an entertainment show it will never be a fair competition as it would be in sports. The public decides based on whatever is appealing to them. That makes all the difference why we are in suspense on elimination night. We wouldn't have it any other way. It is what allowed Team Cola to win, Helio over Mel B., Shawn J. over Gilles. Ultimately it doesn't matter how much training a celeb has, it is whether or not they appeal to the majority of the voting public as to who takes the trophy. The dance off is a little bit different but it is still the public that keeps a celeb out of the bottom 2.
At first I was very against someone with prior to training of any kind of dance or movement being allowed to participate. But after watching the show for many years I have changed my stance. (Sorry for long post but I would like to make some points).
Here is why.
1. I believe that the producers gather up celebrities who have different levels of experience on purpose. If no one had any experience and they were all lackluster and struggling the posts would go like this "there aren't any good dancing on this year, I am losing interest, why can't they get better celebrities, i.e. better dancers." People want to be dazzled. The celebs with some kind of training raise the bar very high.
2. The public will almost always champion the celebrity who improves every week who has never had any kind of training. Especially if they are able to combine an endearing and likeable personality along with that effort. I believe it actually benefits them to be competing with a a celebrity who has experience because if they only compete with other celebrities who are at their level or slightly worse I don't think they are carried by the public with as much interest. It's a Sea Biscuit story. People love a story of overcoming the odds. The best dancer almost never wins DWTS.
3. The celebs who have dance or some type of experience are held to a much higher standard led by Len. I do believe the public follows his lead. I remember when Kristi Y. was criticized for being a ringer and that it was expected she would do well. People complained she was a good dancer but boring. Then she did a freestyle that was absolutely incredible and she outdid herself. When she did that freestyle she brought her personality as well her ability and I think she deserved her win because she brought forth a side of herself we hadn't seen up to that point.
4. I think many people vote for the couple or even a pro and not just the celebrity. Pros who are saddled each season with a clunker finally get someone good and the public wants to see that pro win. Or they at least are voting for the pro and celeb and the working dynamic and partnership. The teamwork. I think of Chris and Ola or Ty and Chelsie and how well they worked together. We vote for choreography and that is voting for the pro and their talents. The pre roll-in package and how the partners sell the dance. As Tony said on Jimmy Kimmel, each pro usually rotates good and bad partners. Derek has come under fire because he always seems to get a good dancer and it is his time to have a rhythm challenged partner to drag around on the floor. The experienced celebs can suffer backlashes from their dance experience so having experience doesn't always translate into votes.
5. Because it is an entertainment show it will never be a fair competition as it would be in sports. The public decides based on whatever is appealing to them. That makes all the difference why we are in suspense on elimination night. We wouldn't have it any other way. It is what allowed Team Cola to win, Helio over Mel B., Shawn J. over Gilles. Ultimately it doesn't matter how much training a celeb has, it is whether or not they appeal to the majority of the voting public as to who takes the trophy. The dance off is a little bit different but it is still the public that keeps a celeb out of the bottom 2.
None of these people are "ringers". A ringer is someone entering a competition pretending to be something they're not. Everyone knows that Nicole is a Pussycat Doll, everyone knows that Evan is an ice dancer, and they're capable of weighing it up in their vote for their favourite if they think they're not performing above and beyond their existing advantages. If Erin had tried to hide her previous dance-troupe experience then SHE'D be a ringer. But she didn't, so she isn't.
Anybody who's watched the show before knows that they have a habit of casting celebrities with past dance experience, or who are ice dancers, who have massive fan-bases built up before the show starts, or whatever. If Chad or Jake or Niecy or whoever think it's not fair for them to have to compete against such people, they can always turn the show down.
Anybody who's watched the show before knows that they have a habit of casting celebrities with past dance experience, or who are ice dancers, who have massive fan-bases built up before the show starts, or whatever. If Chad or Jake or Niecy or whoever think it's not fair for them to have to compete against such people, they can always turn the show down.
Evan isn't an ice DANCER - (nitpicky I know) he's a singles skater!!
He probably find its hard to work with a partner after all these years of skating solo - yes he's used to moving to music but having your size 11s in a rigid inflexible skating boot for years does not make it easy to flex ankles and point toes on a dance floor
He probably find its hard to work with a partner after all these years of skating solo - yes he's used to moving to music but having your size 11s in a rigid inflexible skating boot for years does not make it easy to flex ankles and point toes on a dance floor
Originally Posted by Monkseal:
“None of these people are "ringers". A ringer is someone entering a competition pretending to be something they're not. Everyone knows that Nicole is a Pussycat Doll, everyone knows that Evan is an ice dancer, and they're capable of weighing it up in their vote for their favourite if they think they're not performing above and beyond their existing advantages. If Erin had tried to hide her previous dance-troupe experience then SHE'D be a ringer. But she didn't, so she isn't.
Anybody who's watched the show before knows that they have a habit of casting celebrities with past dance experience, or who are ice dancers, who have massive fan-bases built up before the show starts, or whatever. If Chad or Jake or Niecy or whoever think it's not fair for them to have to compete against such people, they can always turn the show down.”
“None of these people are "ringers". A ringer is someone entering a competition pretending to be something they're not. Everyone knows that Nicole is a Pussycat Doll, everyone knows that Evan is an ice dancer, and they're capable of weighing it up in their vote for their favourite if they think they're not performing above and beyond their existing advantages. If Erin had tried to hide her previous dance-troupe experience then SHE'D be a ringer. But she didn't, so she isn't.
Anybody who's watched the show before knows that they have a habit of casting celebrities with past dance experience, or who are ice dancers, who have massive fan-bases built up before the show starts, or whatever. If Chad or Jake or Niecy or whoever think it's not fair for them to have to compete against such people, they can always turn the show down.”
No.
For one thing, would they even know who is on it when they accept? I don't think so.
Also, I doubt the fact that Nicole is a professional dancer would take away their desire to dance/for the money whatever. I'm speaking as a fan of these people and I think it's irritating when people say of those with a lot of experience "OMG they deserve to win cos they're so good." Well, duh, they're professional.
Basically what I'm saying is if Jake won (not gonna happen but whatever) or Chad, you'll always get those people who say how could they win, they were crap. Like they were with Chris and Ola. Nicole is in the competition, yes. Doesn't mean she deserves to win straight away just because she's a pro. What is the point in the show in that case?
Evan I don't have so much of a problem with as he hasn't had dance training every day of his life fore the last 5 years or so.
Originally Posted by Strictly_Irish:
“No.
For one thing, would they even know who is on it when they accept? I don't think so.
Also, I doubt the fact that Nicole is a professional dancer would take away their desire to dance/for the money whatever. I'm speaking as a fan of these people and I think it's irritating when people say of those with a lot of experience "OMG they deserve to win cos they're so good." Well, duh, they're professional.
Basically what I'm saying is if Jake won (not gonna happen but whatever) or Chad, you'll always get those people who say how could they win, they were crap. Like they were with Chris and Ola. Nicole is in the competition, yes. Doesn't mean she deserves to win straight away just because she's a pro. What is the point in the show in that case?
Evan I don't have so much of a problem with as he hasn't had dance training every day of his life fore the last 5 years or so.”
“No.
For one thing, would they even know who is on it when they accept? I don't think so.
Also, I doubt the fact that Nicole is a professional dancer would take away their desire to dance/for the money whatever. I'm speaking as a fan of these people and I think it's irritating when people say of those with a lot of experience "OMG they deserve to win cos they're so good." Well, duh, they're professional.
Basically what I'm saying is if Jake won (not gonna happen but whatever) or Chad, you'll always get those people who say how could they win, they were crap. Like they were with Chris and Ola. Nicole is in the competition, yes. Doesn't mean she deserves to win straight away just because she's a pro. What is the point in the show in that case?
Evan I don't have so much of a problem with as he hasn't had dance training every day of his life fore the last 5 years or so.”
Given that about half of the series have had someone on with almost professional level experience of some form of dance, you have to assume it's a strong possibility. And that's not even to include ice skaters, or gymnasts or being an Osmond or anything else people class as an advantage. Jake and Chad can easily win if they engage the audience (given that Chad has never been in the bottom 2 despite some crap scores he may well be managing it).
It's part of the show, these people admit their credentials straight up - there's no unfairness. And these people don't win anyway. Mya didn't win, Stacy Keibler didn't win, Sabrina Bryan didn't win, Joey Fatone didn't win, Lance Bass didn't win, Mel B didn't win (although that one might be pushing it, dance career wise), and Nicole is almost certainly not going to win.
I don't even want Nicole to win (although I was rooting for Mya last series) - I'd rather Evan, or Pam, or even Erin on a good day. I just find the constant kvetching about fairness (about anyone - Nicole and her ringerness, Chad and his twitter army, the fact that Jake isn't a "real celebrity", Evan and his skating experience, Erin getting one of the most popular pros) silly - the contest's perfectly fair. Some people will whine whoever wins, on whatever grounds they can find. That's just people.
You are never gonna get a level playing field. People will say athletes have an advantage because they are used to training schedules and tough coaching. People will say performers have an advantage because they are used to performing. Someone who took baby ballet has an advantage and so on and so on.
You are never going to get everyone voting for dancing ability only.
You have the fans who complain it is a personality contest and then you have the fans who complains when a celebrity *doesn't have* personality.
The same celeb that some people love is a celeb others hate (Jake is a good example of that this year - he has many people who just don't like him no matter how much he improves in his dancing).
It's just the nature of the show. I believe the public would tune out if the celebrities were evenly matched in dancing ability, and there was no controversy, strong personalities or lack of personalities to choose from.
You are never going to get everyone voting for dancing ability only.
You have the fans who complain it is a personality contest and then you have the fans who complains when a celebrity *doesn't have* personality.
The same celeb that some people love is a celeb others hate (Jake is a good example of that this year - he has many people who just don't like him no matter how much he improves in his dancing).
It's just the nature of the show. I believe the public would tune out if the celebrities were evenly matched in dancing ability, and there was no controversy, strong personalities or lack of personalities to choose from.
Originally Posted by TylerTango:
“Change the record why don't you?
Mya, Kristi, etc.. etc..”
“Change the record why don't you?
Mya, Kristi, etc.. etc..”
Spot on Tyler. I'm also really tired of the resentful, spiteful comments about good dancers. How miserable! Chill out!
Very glad Nicole is there. If I had to watch sulky, useless, little Madam Kate G for very much longer I'd sink into unfathomable depression.
Give me talent rather than attitude any day.
Last edited by sofakat : 23-04-2010 at 22:18
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