I wish this were easier and there wasn't so much controversy. I watched the ABC boards practically disintegrate over the "Melissa Rycroft is a ringer and shouldn't be in the competition" controversy. There were heated and hugely divided groups either behind Gilles (no experience or dance background) and Melissa (experienced with dance background). Ultimately Shawn won which was a surprise to both of them and for once those two camps were united because they thought it was a travesty that Shawn won! To me all that controversy took the joy out of the dancing itself. It just told me that in the end being considered a ringer doesn't translate into a win so now I know to just sit back and enjoy the show and let the chips fall knowing you cannot predict who will take the trophy.
Links to watch and read about DWTS!
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Originally Posted by kaycee:
“Why knock someone just because they prefer to watch someone who is "good" rather than someone who is "bad"?
As for professional dance contests - you may get these to watch in the USA, but not on British tv (apart from 3 shows by Eurosport at Christmas). Unfortunately, unlike other countries Brit media hasn't yet realised that dance is actually a sport.”
“Why knock someone just because they prefer to watch someone who is "good" rather than someone who is "bad"?
As for professional dance contests - you may get these to watch in the USA, but not on British tv (apart from 3 shows by Eurosport at Christmas). Unfortunately, unlike other countries Brit media hasn't yet realised that dance is actually a sport.”
With you on this one kaycee. Why can't we just enjoy the show without the usual blathering on about 'good' dancers versus so-called beginners. It's so boring - and so relentless.
Originally Posted by Lili27:
“I wish this were easier and there wasn't so much controversy. I watched the ABC boards practically disintegrate over the "Melissa Rycroft is a ringer and shouldn't be in the competition" controversy. There were heated and hugely divided groups either behind Gilles (no experience or dance background) and Melissa (experienced with dance background). Ultimately Shawn won which was a surprise to both of them and for once those two camps were united because they thought it was a travesty that Shawn won! To me all that controversy took the joy out of the dancing itself. It just told me that in the end being considered a ringer doesn't translate into a win so now I know to just sit back and enjoy the show and let the chips fall knowing you cannot predict who will take the trophy.”
“I wish this were easier and there wasn't so much controversy. I watched the ABC boards practically disintegrate over the "Melissa Rycroft is a ringer and shouldn't be in the competition" controversy. There were heated and hugely divided groups either behind Gilles (no experience or dance background) and Melissa (experienced with dance background). Ultimately Shawn won which was a surprise to both of them and for once those two camps were united because they thought it was a travesty that Shawn won! To me all that controversy took the joy out of the dancing itself. It just told me that in the end being considered a ringer doesn't translate into a win so now I know to just sit back and enjoy the show and let the chips fall knowing you cannot predict who will take the trophy.”
I agree. It sucks all the joy out of it for me too
I always laugh at the "people with dance experience are ringers and it's unfair debate." It's such a red herring. The real "ringers" (which is a misused term, but as it has come to be used in this context) are the stars with huge and dedicated fan bases. The Kristi's, Shawn's and Donny's of the show, because fan base ALWAYS wins over good dancing. Kristi had both, but even if she had been bad she would have won and everyone knew it from the day the cast announcement was made. The show has gotten much better since Kristi's season about creating the illusion that it's a horse race when they have contestants with those huge, dedicated fan bases (which isn't every season), but funny how they always seem to win in the end. Always.
Originally Posted by mslissy:
“I always laugh at the "people with dance experience are ringers and it's unfair debate." It's such a red herring. The real "ringers" (which is a misused term, but as it has come to be used in this context) are the stars with huge and dedicated fan bases. The Kristi's, Shawn's and Donny's of the show, because fan base ALWAYS wins over good dancing. Kristi had both, but even if she had been bad she would have won and everyone knew it from the day the cast announcement was made. The show has gotten much better since Kristi's season about creating the illusion that it's a horse race when they have contestants with those huge, dedicated fan bases (which isn't every season), but funny how they always seem to win in the end. Always.”
“I always laugh at the "people with dance experience are ringers and it's unfair debate." It's such a red herring. The real "ringers" (which is a misused term, but as it has come to be used in this context) are the stars with huge and dedicated fan bases. The Kristi's, Shawn's and Donny's of the show, because fan base ALWAYS wins over good dancing. Kristi had both, but even if she had been bad she would have won and everyone knew it from the day the cast announcement was made. The show has gotten much better since Kristi's season about creating the illusion that it's a horse race when they have contestants with those huge, dedicated fan bases (which isn't every season), but funny how they always seem to win in the end. Always.”
mslissy, I totally agree with you.
I watch these competitions because I love to watch dancing. I always want the best dancer to win, which rarely happens, because many others are more interested in the 'journey' or the 'celebrity'.
All this talk about 'ringers' is absolute rubbish.
If none of the contestants have previous ballroom/latin training and NONE are professional ballroom/latin dancers, then it's an open contest. If they were all bad we'd hate it. Some (thank goodness) will always be better than others.
Sorry, no, I wouldn't hate it if they were all bad. As long as they weren't professional dancers like Nicole. But feel free to speak for the other thousands of people here, I'm sure they would ALL agree with you.
There's ringers, and then there are Professional Dancers, which is what Nicole is. She's a Professional Dancer. Yep, that's right. A Professional Dancer.
There's ringers, and then there are Professional Dancers, which is what Nicole is. She's a Professional Dancer. Yep, that's right. A Professional Dancer.
Originally Posted by Philly1234:
“Sorry, no, I wouldn't hate it if they were all bad. As long as they weren't professional dancers like Nicole. But feel free to speak for the other thousands of people here, I'm sure they would ALL agree with you.
There's ringers, and then there are Professional Dancers, which is what Nicole is. She's a Professional Dancer. Yep, that's right. A Professional Dancer.”
“Sorry, no, I wouldn't hate it if they were all bad. As long as they weren't professional dancers like Nicole. But feel free to speak for the other thousands of people here, I'm sure they would ALL agree with you.
There's ringers, and then there are Professional Dancers, which is what Nicole is. She's a Professional Dancer. Yep, that's right. A Professional Dancer.”
Agree. I wouldn't hate it if they were all bad, the show is about learnibg to dance. Not joining the competition already professional and showing how much better you are than the poor crap little beginners (what a travesty it would be if they won over the professional dancer Nicole!).
I like to see improvement and not brilliant from the offset. What is the point?
Nicole certainly has much less training than Mya had (and probably some others, I haven't researched them all) and is no more a professional than many of the others with dance backgrounds that have been on the show. What I think separates Nicole is that she has a tremendous amount of natural talent. Erin, who has danced her entire life, may conceivably have more training than Nicole, but it doesn't look the same because she doesn't have Nicole's natural talent. (That's not a knock on Erin, it's just the way it is.) So it doesn't bother people as much. Nicole's talent and hard work is rarely acknowledged because many just write off her results as being solely the product of having had prior experience. It's really a shame because Nicole and Derek are working extremely hard and putting in lots of hours, yet it seems as though many dismisses those efforts. That is if they notice them at all.
Originally Posted by sofakat:
“With you on this one kaycee. Why can't we just enjoy the show without the usual blathering on about 'good' dancers versus so-called beginners. It's so boring - and so relentless.”
“With you on this one kaycee. Why can't we just enjoy the show without the usual blathering on about 'good' dancers versus so-called beginners. It's so boring - and so relentless.”
Thanks, Sofakat. The point is as well, if they were to ban everyone who had any form of dance experience, then they would have to ban just about every actor, performer etc., who has ever been to any type of stage school, because a certain amount of dance training is obligatory in most.
Originally Posted by Strictly_Irish:
“Who knocked anyone? I'm tired of people going on about how the "best dancer" should get 10s and win etc so I'm making a point. How is it fair the someone like Jake or Chad shouldn't win because someone professional like Nicole (and Evan to a slightly lesser extent) is there? Makes the show pointless.
There are plenty of places you can watch professionals dance on YouTube. This is just a celeb show & it should be beginners that improve. IMO.”
“Who knocked anyone? I'm tired of people going on about how the "best dancer" should get 10s and win etc so I'm making a point. How is it fair the someone like Jake or Chad shouldn't win because someone professional like Nicole (and Evan to a slightly lesser extent) is there? Makes the show pointless.
There are plenty of places you can watch professionals dance on YouTube. This is just a celeb show & it should be beginners that improve. IMO.”
If all the dancers were like Kate, Buzz or even Chad, then viewers would turn off in their millions with boredom, and the show would collapse. Unfortunately when the celebs are booked, the producers have no idea how they will turn out, so try to have at least a couple of others who at least promise some sort of standard to keep the show alive.
As for dancing on YouTube. Yes, I agree there is plenty of pro dancing on there - I'm on there myself - but viewing on YouTube is not the same, and, at best, is hardly quality viewing.
Originally Posted by Philly1234:
“Sorry, no, I wouldn't hate it if they were all bad. As long as they weren't professional dancers like Nicole. But feel free to speak for the other thousands of people here, I'm sure they would ALL agree with you.
There's ringers, and then there are Professional Dancers, which is what Nicole is. She's a Professional Dancer. Yep, that's right. A Professional Dancer.”
“Sorry, no, I wouldn't hate it if they were all bad. As long as they weren't professional dancers like Nicole. But feel free to speak for the other thousands of people here, I'm sure they would ALL agree with you.
There's ringers, and then there are Professional Dancers, which is what Nicole is. She's a Professional Dancer. Yep, that's right. A Professional Dancer.”
Is Nicole a professional dancer? I thought she was a professional singer in a girl band.
She is not a professional ballroom/latin dancer and that is what THIS competition is about.
You carry on enjoying all the plodders and I'll stick with the dancers.
Originally Posted by *Wysiwyg*:
“Is Nicole a professional dancer? I thought she was a professional singer in a girl band.
She is not a professional ballroom/latin dancer and that is what THIS competition is about.
You carry on enjoying all the plodders and I'll stick with the dancers.”
“Is Nicole a professional dancer? I thought she was a professional singer in a girl band.
She is not a professional ballroom/latin dancer and that is what THIS competition is about.
You carry on enjoying all the plodders and I'll stick with the dancers.
”
I agree with you. A lot of people don't seem to realise how different ballroom/Latin dance is to any other kind of dance. I've seen amazing ballet dancers who have been unable to make the transition, let alone someone who "cavorts" around a stage as a singer. (And I don't mean "cavorts" in a derogatory manner - just can't think of a better word!!!)
It is true that people who have do/done some dancing maybe fitter and more flexible, but then that argument can be used against sports folk who are going to be a lot fitter than - say - someone who sits on a chair presenting a show.
Just wanted to thank those who post links, especially for the 2 shows, as I can only watch via You Tube.
Re the ringers - I think it's a matter of degree. I don't have a problem with celebrities who have had some dance training or experience as long as it is not hidden and the judges take that into account at least with their comments, if not the marks. I think the people who bother to vote can choose to make their own adjustment if they feel it is unfair.
On the US version of SYTYCD it is obvious that dancers highly trained in one field can't necessarily dance well in ballroom. However on DWTS & Strictly if the training in one field of dance is to a high degree then I would prefer not to see them on the show - for me this would rule out Mya but not sure exactly how much training Nicole has had. Lance Bass worked with top choreographers such as Wade Robson but he was technically so poor that he didn't even seem to get tarred with the ringer label.
I'm swayed also by how the character of the dance is portrayed, the dance chemistry between the couple and their (working) relationship and likeability as seen in the VTs etc not just the technical skill.
I don't feel any chemistry or magic between Nicole & Derek and I don't warm to her so she's not likely to get my vote even though I am a fan of Derek and I imagine that's the case for many people - plus she won't get the support of the anti-ringer section of the audience so I would be surprised if she wins - the "best" dancer rarely does. Evan is lucky that she draws most of the anti-ringer ire IMO
Re the ringers - I think it's a matter of degree. I don't have a problem with celebrities who have had some dance training or experience as long as it is not hidden and the judges take that into account at least with their comments, if not the marks. I think the people who bother to vote can choose to make their own adjustment if they feel it is unfair.
On the US version of SYTYCD it is obvious that dancers highly trained in one field can't necessarily dance well in ballroom. However on DWTS & Strictly if the training in one field of dance is to a high degree then I would prefer not to see them on the show - for me this would rule out Mya but not sure exactly how much training Nicole has had. Lance Bass worked with top choreographers such as Wade Robson but he was technically so poor that he didn't even seem to get tarred with the ringer label.
I'm swayed also by how the character of the dance is portrayed, the dance chemistry between the couple and their (working) relationship and likeability as seen in the VTs etc not just the technical skill.
I don't feel any chemistry or magic between Nicole & Derek and I don't warm to her so she's not likely to get my vote even though I am a fan of Derek and I imagine that's the case for many people - plus she won't get the support of the anti-ringer section of the audience so I would be surprised if she wins - the "best" dancer rarely does. Evan is lucky that she draws most of the anti-ringer ire IMO
Tonight is the swing dance marathon night so should be a hit. Evan evidently got hurt again in training and suffered a mild concussion during swing training. He can't seem to keep from being injured.
This the week the celebs design the costumes.
Jake and Chelsie are dancing first.
This the week the celebs design the costumes.
Jake and Chelsie are dancing first.
Len is going after the pros tonight. 
I agree with him. This why DWTS gets it bad rap of the dancing being too gimmicky and to flashy with not enough basic steps. It irritates me also.
I agree with him. This why DWTS gets it bad rap of the dancing being too gimmicky and to flashy with not enough basic steps. It irritates me also.
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