You asked a question - I answered it. I made no comment about your opinion of Karen. I CAN say she definitely would have beaten them because thats how it works. Levels of results (eg winner, finalist, semi finalist etc) equal a level of technique for that dancer. The higher level you reach, the better dancer you are considered and that stays constant through the eras.

She was a multi-major title winner and regular finalist. Second in world championships to Donny and Gaynor. None of the other dancers have reached this level and most are international semi standard. Nicole and Matthew closest as regular international and world champ finalists, title winners and Amatur World Champions. You can therefore make the judgement Karen would have beaten them all, with the Cutlers the closest competition.

That doesn't mean you have to like Karen, I haven't even said if I like Karen or not - this is just me answering your question.

You're right, you did say that, and that was the end of it, until Erinfan decided to join in. I just think it's vaguely amusing that despite thinking I was entitled to my opinion, you mentioned Karen's credentials, as if I was saying Karen was no good.

You weren't answering my question as I didn't ask one.
All I said was i believed Karen didn't compete directly against the others, but correct me if I was wrong. I wasn't.

I was responding to this quote. I read it as you saying would Karen have beaten the other pros if she was competing against them? I answered using comp results to point out her level and therefore reason for my answer.

If you weren't asking that I apologise, but to be honest I was skimming through the posts and that's what I thought you meant. At no point have I been trying to have a go at you or belittle your opinion!!

I was not making a comment on your opinion of Karen or implying it was wrong. I was just answering what I thought you were asking. I'm not a particular Karen fan. I like her, but I'm not here trying to defend her or say she's brilliant. I do think she would have definitely beaten the others though and said as much for the reasons I gave.

No, I wasn't asking that question!

Well said.

Of course the majority of people watching the show have no real knowledge or understanding of the techniques of each dance (I include myself) and quite often if they like the personality of a particular dancer or find them attractive, that alone can be the basis for thinking they are the "best" dancer... since we all bring our own biases to such matters. Subjectively, we can all have whoever we want as our faves on the show. Based on professional results, Karen and the Cutlers are head and shoulders above the rest. Quite a few of the couples have had very nice careers and have made a living doing what they love (no easy task), but haven't necessarily made an impact on the world stage...

To be honest, all of the dancers in the show have had pretty successful careers in their own right. A major comp semi-finalist is an incredible achievement - especially when you think of how many people compete. All of the latin dancers have achieved this and some have other accomplishments as well such as a national title, rising stars final or a showdance final etc.

V+F have obviously been phenomenally successful at the Argentine Tango, but they have also been very highly rated 10 dancers, making world finals. Anton and Erin were Top 24 which was a great achievement and they may have continued to improve in the rankings if they had carried on competing. They have also been incredibly successful choreographers, with their show Simply Ballroom still touring and I think I read it was international now.

All of the dancers are brilliant and to be admired really. There are different levels there, but they all do a great job in the show and all have their part to play!

it.was.amazing!!!!

anyone know which pros choreographed it?

^Someone said that it was the Cutlers

Well said ! great post .

I found this quote about Karen from Dance Today , it makes a point but doesn't mean anything else .

It was the Cutlers, Karen told me.

oooh i thought it was! some of it really reminded me of burn the floor as well! no wonder it was so good!

Based on professional results, Karen and the Cutlers are head and shoulders above the rest in terms of what they have won/achieved. It would be, IMO, stupid to say Karen's achievements means she is definitively better (at this point in time) than all the other women, given that Karen retired in 1999. A few of the others are still competing professionally. Sure, Karen may have done a few series of Strictly and is teaching, but the training for those and her standard today surely can't compare to what it must have been like when she was competing professionally. I am not being provocative here, it just makes common sense. John Barnes also retired (from football) in 1999. Do you really think that, after all this time, even if he was in shape, he'd be better than most of the other top players if put in a head-to-head with them?

For the record, my favourite female dancer is Nicole, and that is not because I think she has the best personality or is the most attractive as I don't think either of those things (even though she seems very nice, I know little about her personality), but because I like the way she dances and her choreography.

Football is very different to dancing.

If Donnie Burns competed today, he would still wipe the floor with every other dance couple out there. It is because he has a superior knowledge of technique and execution which is what got him to the top in the first place. This is why he teaches all of the best couples in the world of today, as he knows things that they are still striving to learn, despite their level and achievement and can do things within his dancing that others cannot.

A similar thing is relevant for Karen and why she is now a top coach and a highly respected international judge (and why she possibly teaches some of the other pros and definitely coached Nicole as recently as 2 years ago) - although I must admit, she does look to me as if she has lost a lot of her polish when she dances herself. (relatively speaking of course!) Has she lost enough polish to be considered worse than some of the others - many would say her technique keeps her well above them. If she trained seriously for a few months and then danced next to them, there would probably be no argument at all, as she is capable of a higher level of dancing.

Karen and the Cutlers' achievements aren't just titles and trophies - they reflect the level of dancing they are capable of.

Just my opinion/answer to what you posted - not meaning to provoke another argument with you!