I agree too indigomoon. Since in rehearsals you see matt mucking about and the fact he gets good scores people don't go off about him putting his best into it, yet with kate training more than most and because she doesn't do so well, people assume she's not trying. It amazes me that people don't seem to grasp the concept that everyone learns differently and at a different pace. I would much rather be swayed by positive support than nasty comments.

I shall look forward to the next millenium then when Kate, at her pace, has mastered some basic steps

Maybe she should come back next series to see if she's managed a few basics.............? Just a thought!

^^LOL - I truly think she is doing her best. Unfortunately, her best day is probably like their worst day for the remaining couples.

ive said it before im aware you cant physically vote kate out but her dancing is like a train wreck, now im all for raising money for charity but id rather donate the money straight ot children i need than see kate dance anymore. im sorry if this offends or upsets people but its how i feel and i can express my feelings.

If watching Kate dance is seriously such a terrible trial for you, why don't you treat it like an interval and go and make yourself a nice cup of tea instead of subjecting Kate fans to the negative vibes. Yes you have a right to your opinion but so us to ours, why don't you try posting positively I am sure it will help lift your spirits.

And how is anyone doing that then? Chaining your arms to your side? Removing all means of telephone communication from you? Kidnapping you?

Or (now sit down, this might shock you) are they just expressing a point of view or an opinion (which just happens to be somewhat different from yours)?

No the continual demands that we must not vote for her, the personal attacks on her are all just forms of snobbery. I have never stated you have no right to an opinion infact I would champion your right to have it. However I don't have to like it and ( now sit down, this might shock you) am I just expressing a point of view or an opinion which just happens to be different from yours?

Freedom of speech for all not just the Elite!

Hmmm, well you said I was a dance snob, and I've repeatedly said you can vote for whoever you like, so your definition needs some work...

I specifically said, in fact,

Similarly it's MY right to vote for who *I* want to vote for, and it doesn't make me a dance snob.


Did I say you'd written anything against the dancers? No.

Did I say you had canvassed against them? No.

You said you were voting for Kate and gave your reasons. I explained why I felt your reaons were not good enough reaons for *me* to vote for her. I also made the point that I have had great enjoyment from some "not that great" dancers in the past - I'm all for entertainment value and improvement where it exists.

You said, and I quote:


So I'm not sure why *I* am supposed to be apologising to YOU.

Where's my ignore button? far as I'm concerned this conversation is finished

You said, and I quote:


so I'm not sure why *I* am supposed to be apologising to YOU.
Where's my ignore button? far as I'm concerned this conversation is finished [/quote]

If forum members care to check I did not start this conversation, Sarah responded to a post of mine which discussed dance snobs in general. At no time did I accuse her personally, that's just not my style! The apology was due because Sarah did accuse me of only liking people who vote for Kate . This is just not true, please feel free to check my posts. That is something I would never do. I think they are all great and really game for having a go and risking some of the ridiculous IMHO critism they attract from some quarters.

Sarah feel free to ignore me , I never courted your conversation but do not deliberately set out to offend you. As I've said before I think posting positively abouts the dancers helps keep the proper spirit of SCD alive.

Which everyone is free to ignore, in the same way as the continual demands for people to vote for her. Perhaps in that respect, your use of the term "seek to curtail my right to vote for Kate" is an over-reaction, as no-one is actually able to do that. And no-one is able to curtail your right to do anything (so perhaps therefore over-emotive language like that is not exactly appropriate)


Snobbery? I'm not so sure of that (I would use snobbery to mean something a little different), but personal attacks on people are not on. However, there is a difference between a personal attack and a statement along the lines of "xxxx can't dance/ is hopeless/annoys/is not entertaining and should go".


Correct, and that holds true for ALL, whichever side of the argument they are on.

I love that we're in complete agreement about personal attacks being wrong and everyone having a right to an opinion and voting the way they want.
We also have the right to support our favourite against unfair critisism and thats precisely why i'm posting on a thread that tells me to vote Kate out ! I believe that those who post in an over emotive way against her because she's not as good as the others are dance snobs or simply like shredding others apart for no good reason but the delight it brings them.
I do wonder about why people feel the need to post negatively about the dancers!

That term does seem to be rather all-encompassing



Is that only those that personally attack her? Or does it also include those that pass a negative opinion on her dancing ability (or lack of) or ask why she is still there?

Many use her lack of dancing ability to attack her personally, eg the comments about her gurning or not trying !

But no, critisising her dancing is fine IMHO, i feely admit she's not good. And yes it's ok to ask why she is still there as many people do.

What is wrong is to suggest that she is morally culpable because better dancers are going before her or that she is somehow bad because she wants to stay in. The public vote her in she has every right to her place and doesn't need to apologise for it.
Also to suggest the viewing public can't vote for whoever they like is also wrong.
Dance snobbery is the above.
I do not suggest that you do or do not hold any of the above opinions I simply state them in general.

The programme itself is NOT about charity, it's a light entertainment show featuring celebrities trying to dance, aided by professional dancers. The part that is about raising money for charity is the phone calls made by members of the public. The BBC justifies this request for people to spend their own money (on top of the licence fee) on making phone calls to keep their favourites in by giving a high profile to the charity aspect, not surprising in the light of recent phone vote scandals. It makes no difference to them whether you vote for Kate or someone who is actually any good. Nor does it make any difference to Kate. A vote for a good dancer will earn the same 12p for Children in Need, and if you are so concerned about the money raised for charity, rest assured that if you vote for any of the other couples you won't be letting the children down.

Yes, indeed, indigomoon, SCD is a dance COMPETITION. The better dancers are supposed to get through to later rounds while the ones who aren't very good fall by the wayside. It's not elitism, it's a competition. What you and fellow Kate fans are deliberately ignoring is the fact that for her to stay in, others who are much better at dancing and give more pleasure to the viewer are ridiculously receiving fewer votes and the judges are left with the awful decision of having to let one of them go.

I'm not an expert in dancing but take pleasure in watching the good dancers. The ones with aptitude will be able to learn more difficult routines and give more variety, but we are stuck with Kate being dragged around the floor by her partner because she can't learn even the simplest routine.

If she had left the show in the first few weeks as she should have done she wouldn't be getting this "abuse" after all. Don't blame us for being nasty about her, blame yourselves for enabling her to still be there.

Shouting loudly doesn't win any arguements.
None of the points made by the poster you replied to were addressed.
Kate by being Kate gets people who would not normally vote to vote i.e. those who like her good humour in the face of adversity, i.e. those who want to register a protest vote against personal insults by judges and others on here, i.e. anyone whoever got balled out in a PE class, dance class or aerobics class for lack of co-ordination and lack of talent.
Oh and yes it is about light entertainment and not serious dance but I wish the best of luck to all the dancers including the good ones. They are ALL doing a very good thing and I for one thank them .

But that is exactly what you and your chums are doing. Mass voting for Kate is causing others' favourites to be eliminated.

Unfortunately Kate and Anton are getting massed voting because of the orchestrated campaign to keep Kate in. There are thousands of viewers who think one vote is enough or who don't think about voting at all, such as a lot of elderly people who just enjoy watching the dancing and Brucie. They are probably totally bemused by the way some of the better dancers keep getting voted off.

I think it's totally appropriate to blame those being nasty for being nasty, who else would any rational person blame. Or have you elavated the art of being nasty as being morally excusable on the grounds having different views to yourself!
Put quite simply it's not nice being nasty and it never will be!

I was unaware that putting some sentences in bold was shouting. I thought shouting was posting in capitals. I made some bits bold to emphasise the important points.

Your arguement lacks real logic, as you agree Kate is there because she gets more votes, ergo she deserves to be there. That is the nature of the competition and the one that all the competitors signed up for. If certain sections of viewers don't like the system then canvas the BBC to put on a true dance competition but don't get all nasty to the competitors!

It's very sad that after a good few years of SCD it has now in some peoples' eyes ceased to be a good-natured dance competition and become just like all the other reality shows.

For people seriously to suggest that voting for the better dancers is dance snobbery or elitism is frankly the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard. Apply this to sporting excellence and it becomes clear why this country rarely wins anything in sport.

This is a democracy and everyone is entitled to their opinion. We do have a range of abilities still on view and it's not clear who is going to win, but we do hope to be entertained by well-choreographed routines, especially later in the series when the dances get longer and the couples have to learn a couple of dances a week. Therefore I am hoping that commonsense will eventually prevail and we will be left with the celebrities most capable of making progress as dancers.

I vote for those whose dancing pleases me

Kate's dancing does not please me

that's it!

There is no flawed logic. She is there because she gets more votes, not because she deserves to be there for her dancing talent.

Tell me something, im - have you the slightest interest in dancing of any sort? What is it that appeals to you when you see Kate struggling around the floor? Do you go "oh, bless, look at her, she's trying so hard for those dear children, pass me the phone, I can't wait to see her on again next week"?

What do you do when, say, Alesha is gliding elegantly round the floor? "Oh god, here's one of the celebs who thinks she's so good - totally elitist that she can do that, it shouldn't be allowed, I'm off to make a cup of tea"?

(gurning comment removed as this will be dealt with shortly) Sorry, but that's a comment on ability, application and interpretation, not a personal attack (which in my book is something along the lines of the "looks like a horse" comment seen elsewhere on this forum). Gurning - in my view a fair comment if it is within the context of the dance (as that would be part and parcel of the "performance and interpretation" of the dance) and is not linked with a derogatory or nasty attack.


OK, I'm happy with that.