DS Forums

 
 

Are there any widescreen disadvantages?


Reply
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 17-11-2007, 21:40
carnivalist
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 4,412

My old TV having blown up, I'm looking for a 2nd hand CRT. (I can't afford the newer types, so don't start.)

I thought I might drag myself into the latter part of the twentieth century and get a widescreen, but I've been told that there are disadvantages with this format over the non-widescreen format and moreover that a lot of the progress in TV technology is often over-hyped. Is it true that 4:3 CRT TVs often still have the best picture? It does seem to me that a lot of the pictures on widescreen are unnaturally stretched.

What are the advantages and disadvantages of widescreen? Is most sport shown in widescreen for example?

I realise that this thread is a bit of a pleb alongside discussions of the latest cutting-edge technology, but I would be grateful for your thoughts.

By the way if you have any brands that should be avoided/ sought after in the cheap second-hand market I'd be doubly grateful.
carnivalist is offline   Reply With Quote
Please sign in or register to remove this advertisement.
Old 17-11-2007, 22:53
Jarrak
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Ilkeston
Posts: 18,075
Well it's true that widescreen has pushed CRT technology to it's limits and geometry/convergence issues are more common. As to the stretching of a picture that is entirely down to how the owner has set the TV up, you can display a 4:3 broadcast at that ration on a widescreen TV but many simply think stretching it to fill the screen is better even if it distorts the image.
Widescreen is the defacto standard for the terrestrial channels these days plus the main SKY channels however there is no getting around the fact that they still show a lot of old content that was made in 4:3 and hence is broadcast as such, that is where the TV owner comes into play, they decide how the 4:3 is presented.
All UK based footy is widescreen however overseas games are split probably 50/50 since most countries are still in the dark ages lacking HD let alone widescreen.


The truth is the CRT market is all but dead in terms of good quality value for money sets, the low end is almost all noname/rebadged units sold in supermarkets with a few middle of the road sets from well known manufacturers who are reliant on cheap foreign production and a lack of R&D and sold from normal retailers


With the total collapse of the market which can provide a brand new 28" for under £200 and 1 year warranty you should be able to pick up even a 1 year old second set for very little money and a brand name. There really isn't that much to choose between them now that the profit margins are so slim.
Jarrak is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17-11-2007, 23:08
niall campbell
Forum Member
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Aberfeldy
Posts: 7,035
buy a second hand sony widescreen

hopefully with 3 scarts and two being rgb

widescreen is great
niall campbell is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17-11-2007, 23:09
steven123
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Teesside, England
Posts: 2,898
I think you should definately try to get a widescreen set. The vast majority of programmes on the mainstream channels (virtually all Freeview) channels is now shown in widescreen. Of course any films you buy on DVD will be widescreen and all current games consoles fully support widescreen as do modern games.

Of course a 4:3 set can display in letter box format but since widescreen format is so common now you would find yourself using that mode all the time on a 4:3.

Also 4:3 CRTs (of decent size) have been out of production for far longer than widescreen sets so there is a real danger you could end up with a really old 4:3 set that only lasts a few months or so before conking out.

I would try to get a second hand Sony or Panasonic set, even big name CRT sets such as these will be reasonably cheap these days, you should be able to get a 32" or possibly even 36" set for very sensible money. Of course with large sets like these you will have to find someone near by as very few people can offer delivery on such large items.
steven123 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17-11-2007, 23:11
Insaneperson
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 1,381
Get a widescreen definitely. There is no picture advantage to getting a 4:3 one. You should be able to buy a high spec used one locally of ebay now. I would say ebay is definitely the best place to buy one.
Insaneperson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17-11-2007, 23:42
Chris Simon
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: Snowdonia
Posts: 2,725
I've been told that there are disadvantages with this format over the non-widescreen format and moreover that a lot of the progress in TV technology is often over-hyped. Is it true that 4:3 CRT TVs often still have the best picture? It does seem to me that a lot of the pictures on widescreen are unnaturally stretched.
4:3 TVs are the same technology as 16:9 TVs, so there is no reason why the shape should make a difference.

Most programmes now are made in widescreen so if you watch on a 4:3 set you are losing some of the picture. Certainly, with analogue switch-off, the standard will be 16:9 anamorphic (we'll come to that later). High Definition (HD) broadcasts are inherently 16:9.

The stretching that you've seen is due to people not setting up their TVs properly! Some might prefer it that way, others don't know any different and think that's how widescreen is supposed to look. Basically, what they're doing is stretching a 4:3 picture so that it fills the entire screen. They should be putting their TVs into "auto" mode which means a 4:3 picture is shown in a square-ish shape and a 16:9 picture fills the whole screen. That way, there is no distortion. What they have done is to set the TV to 16:9 permanently, which I find horrid.

And it's doubly wrong to have a set top box such as Sky or Freeview and set it up as 4:3, then display it on a 16:9 set and stretch it. Eeek!

The only slight disadvantage of non-HD widescreen is that the broadcasts are actually 4:3 but horizontally compressed, and then the TV uncompresses it again. This isd called anamorphic. This loses a bit of horizontal resolution, however it's not noticeable at all. All DVDs are anamorphically compressed and I'm sure everyone agrees that they look terrific.

Other than that, there are only advantages to be had.
Chris Simon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17-11-2007, 23:47
timmillwood
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 631
Why the hell would anyone want 4:3, i just dont understand.
timmillwood is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18-11-2007, 00:10
Orry Verducci
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Soham, Cambridgeshire
Posts: 2,774
The stretching that you've seen is due to people not setting up their TVs properly! Some might prefer it that way, others don't know any different and think that's how widescreen is supposed to look. Basically, what they're doing is stretching a 4:3 picture so that it fills the entire screen. They should be putting their TVs into "auto" mode which means a 4:3 picture is shown in a square-ish shape and a 16:9 picture fills the whole screen. That way, there is no distortion. What they have done is to set the TV to 16:9 permanently, which I find horrid.
Not necessarily, some models of TVs are just stubborn, such as mine. I have a Samsung Widescreen CRT, which only lets me watch the stretched picture on RGB inputs, yet when I change the Sky Box output to PAL, the quality degrades dramatically. I've just got used to it over the years, and now it looks weird watching it with the pillarboxing. It's probably just a few models of the Samsung CRT's that do that though, I know the flatscreens don't do it.
Orry Verducci is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18-11-2007, 01:21
John Currie
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: South Lanarkshire. Scotland
Posts: 2,005
I have a Samsung Widescreen CRT, which only lets me watch the stretched picture on RGB inputs, yet when I change the Sky Box output to PAL, the quality degrades dramatically.
You need to make sure "Scart Control" within the Sky box "Picture Settings" is switched to "on", use a fully-wired scart lead and make sure it's connected to the socket marked "TV Scart" on the Sky box.
John Currie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18-11-2007, 01:23
steveOooo
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: London
Posts: 4,469
for me i much prefer crt picture quality to that of sd on a lcd tv. havent viewed hd yet but im guessing itll make my lcd look like a crt.
steveOooo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18-11-2007, 10:35
niall campbell
Forum Member
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Aberfeldy
Posts: 7,035
if its on 16.9 widescreen all the time you dont notice after a while and stops picture jumping all the time
niall campbell is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18-11-2007, 15:22
bobcar
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 14,718
if its on 16.9 widescreen all the time you dont notice after a while and stops picture jumping all the time
I don't think I could ever get used to watching a distorted picture, call me fussy bit I've paid too much money for my video equipment.

Also I've never seen the picture jump around, it just adjusts to the correct aspect ratio.
bobcar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18-11-2007, 17:06
niall campbell
Forum Member
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Aberfeldy
Posts: 7,035
yes you are corrrect, and your better being fussy.

I too like perfect picture and use a half decent scart which the parafin telly brigade hate ( cant beat ghosting free scart ! ) and we fuel the economy


but trying to please the wife takes top priority in my house! so no jumping pictures
niall campbell is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18-11-2007, 18:05
carnivalist
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 4,412
yes you are corrrect, and your better being fussy.

I too like perfect picture and use a half decent scart which the parafin telly brigade hate ( cant beat ghosting free scart ! ) and we fuel the economy


but trying to please the wife takes top priority in my house! so no jumping pictures
I'm sorry, which post does this refer to?
carnivalist is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18-11-2007, 20:59
paninieyes
Banned User
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 27
There are no disadvantages to widescreen programming.

The disadvantage (if you can call it that) with a widescreen set is the black bars at the side if you watch 4:3 material correctly.

And there are plenty of satellite channels that broadcast 16:9 in 14:9 which makes it annoying to view.

But to buy 4:3 (if you can find one) in this day and age is a non starter.
paninieyes is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18-11-2007, 21:37
Orry Verducci
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Soham, Cambridgeshire
Posts: 2,774
You need to make sure "Scart Control" within the Sky box "Picture Settings" is switched to "on", use a fully-wired scart lead and make sure it's connected to the socket marked "TV Scart" on the Sky box.
I'm extremely technically literate when it comes to this stuff, so I can assure you it's all setup correctly. It's just the TV refusing to pillarbox RGB inputs, and I know it's a problem that exists with some models of Samsung Widescreen CRTs. It's the same on all RGB inputs, not just the Sky box. As I understand it, there is a chip in the TV which pillarboxes the picture, which doesn't support RGB, which is why it only works when SCART Control is off or when the output is set to PAL. However, when RGB is off, the limitations of PAL signals are very noticeable, such as dot-crawl, higher saturation and blurring on the red colour channel/
Orry Verducci is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18-11-2007, 21:45
paninieyes
Banned User
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 27
I'm extremely technically literate when it comes to this stuff, so I can assure you it's all setup correctly. It's just the TV refusing to pillarbox RGB inputs, and I know it's a problem that exists with some models of Samsung Widescreen CRTs. It's the same on all RGB inputs, not just the Sky box. As I understand it, there is a chip in the TV which pillarboxes the picture, which doesn't support RGB, which is why it only works when SCART Control is off or when the output is set to PAL. However, when RGB is off, the limitations of PAL signals are very noticeable, such as dot-crawl, higher saturation and blurring on the red colour channel/
This stupid problem was also on Panasonic tv's a few years back - but only for a very brief period.

My set pre dates the problem and its one I couldn't live with.

My Panasonic removes the 14:9 option in RGB.
So all those crappy non widescreen sat channels that show wide stuff in 14:9 have to be viewed either in composite or with the small top and bottom borders too.
paninieyes is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21-11-2007, 16:42
carnivalist
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 4,412
Having purchased a second-hand widescreen set for my extremely unfussy mother (she once told me that the snowy picture from a 14" set with a coat-hanger for an aerial was "absolutely fine" ) it does seem to me that even the programmes broadcast in widescreen appear a little odd. They still look slightly stretched to my eye, but maybe that's some kind of adjustment process from having been used to 4:3 sets for so long.
carnivalist is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21-11-2007, 17:13
John Currie
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: South Lanarkshire. Scotland
Posts: 2,005
it does seem to me that even the programmes broadcast in widescreen appear a little odd. They still look slightly stretched to my eye
The set may have a fault.
John Currie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21-11-2007, 18:54
carnivalist
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 4,412
Does anyone have more suggestions as to good 2nd hand 28" brands to look out for?
carnivalist is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21-11-2007, 18:58
Nigel Goodwin
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: North Derbyshire
Posts: 41,782
Does anyone have more suggestions as to good 2nd hand 28" brands to look out for?
Sony's are well known for their picture quality and reliability, and there are plenty of ex-rental ones about these days, and 32's as well.
Nigel Goodwin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21-11-2007, 19:08
sancheeez
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 6,762
Does anyone have more suggestions as to good 2nd hand 28" brands to look out for?
Where abouts are you?

Having just upgraded to a dirty great 40" LCD panel, I now have a perfectly good 28" Toshiba widescreen CRT up for sale. Model number is 28ZH37P.

100hz set, 2 x SCART, handles s-video and RGB OK. It's about 3 years old and has never given us any trouble in the time we've had it.

I'm in Edinburgh so you'' probably be in Southampton or something .....

Having just had a quick look on ebay at similar sets ...... £40 if you're anywhere near me.
sancheeez is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21-11-2007, 19:45
carnivalist
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 4,412
Having purchased a second-hand widescreen set for my extremely unfussy mother (she once told me that the snowy picture from a 14" set with a coat-hanger for an aerial was "absolutely fine" ) it does seem to me that even the programmes broadcast in widescreen appear a little odd. They still look slightly stretched to my eye, but maybe that's some kind of adjustment process from having been used to 4:3 sets for so long.

The set may have a fault.
It seems she had her VM box set to output 4:3.
carnivalist is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21-11-2007, 19:51
carnivalist
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 4,412
Where abouts are you?

Having just upgraded to a dirty great 40" LCD panel, I now have a perfectly good 28" Toshiba widescreen CRT up for sale. Model number is 28ZH37P.

100hz set, 2 x SCART, handles s-video and RGB OK. It's about 3 years old and has never given us any trouble in the time we've had it.

I'm in Edinburgh so you'' probably be in Southampton or something ..... ...
Not as near as that - Exeter unfortunately. Good luck though.

The set that blew up was Toshiba. Loved the picture quality.

Sony's are well known for their picture quality and reliability, and there are plenty of ex-rental ones about these days, and 32's as well.

Any particular ranges? Any 50Hz models or models that can switch between the two?

I heard that there was a scare with radiation output on some old sets, plus read something about some bad motherboards on the Trinitron KV-28LS60U.
carnivalist is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21-11-2007, 19:52
sancheeez
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 6,762
Not as near as that - Exeter unfortunately.
lol ..... was worth a try.
sancheeez is offline   Reply With Quote
 
Reply




 
Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 18:02.