to quote a certain Mr. Tickle "thought so"

People actually record this rubbish? You serious? Why.....

As backup ammo for any debates on here, very handy if someones talking bollocks.

"ochhhh... the de-vil makes worrrrk ferrr i-dle hands..."

sort of thing Cam might of said... very true tho'!

Fair eough - i am obviously just not die-hard enough to call myself a fan...

I don't have a say in it where my tivo is concerned, you should see some of the rubbish it records for me, I do still have some BB footage from about a week or so ago, that I haven't looked at yet, that my tivo decided I might want to watch.

To be honest, I leave the video running through the night and if I read on here that anything exciting has happened I'll zap through the tape to find it.

As I said before - read the thread that was written at the time by those of us up 'Jon thinks Ray should get a personality'. Believe us, don't believe us as you will - though I'm not sure why we'd all make something up when at the time most people thought Cameron would be leaving (as you'll see if you read the thread).

For what it's worth, here's what I remember :-

1) Cameron definitely said if someone made a comment like that to him he'd 'grab him by the throat and smash his face in', whilst menacing some scissors.

2) As part of the goading of Ray, he definitely suggested pissing in Jon's shower gel - followed by 'you sent that to me by telepathy' to somehow look less 'bad'.

3) Also, as part of the goading, he suggested that Jon was probably taking a dump in Ray's shoes at that moment. I believe this has been misinterpreted as Cameron suggesting Jon 'shit in Ray's' - I don't remember that comment.

4) He definitely suggested that Ray should throw eggs at Jon when he was evicted the next day and it would be worth being evicted to do that.

Now, even if you don't believe all the threats are as reported I don't see how anyone can justify Channel 4 ignoring all of this. I'd ask again, why would we all make it up at the time? Was it a mass hallucination?

We have to see this. Someone must have taped it and not yet recorded over it. If we had this tape I honestly thing it would make front page news (in the Daily Star at least )

Oh it happened alright. I saw it, along with his "lets throw eggs at Jon when he goes tomorrow and pee in his shoes" etc suggestions.
Fed had been feeding Rays rage and post event growling by saying how different it would have been if Cameron rather Ray had been put in their place by Jon. Fed told Ray that Jon had made him look stupid and contrasted this with how Cameron would have reacted. I think that at the time Fed was using the, at the time, improbability of any serious reaction from Cameron to further inflame Ray. To everyone's amazement Cameron said he would have reacted very violently. Gos expressed his surprise telling Cameron that he had not thought of Cameron as a fighting man. So then Cameron was explaining how very very much he disliked people like Jon and how he would like to punch their face to the back of their head. This was not an "off the cuff", "said with a twinkle" kind of remark. It was accompanied by violent punching gestures.
Incidentally Scott despite his subsequent rationalisation was at least as hostile about Jon's criticism of Ray perhaps because he had been plotting extensions of the jolly wheeze for the following night and it was Scott who first offered the opinion that it didn't matter what Jon said because he would be gone next day. The atmosphere was really poisonous and no amount of editing or re writing will change that glimpse of pure nastiness.

No one's got it, probably because most people are like me and can't be bothered recording this stuff. It's a good job we don't as well, because it gives those who think it's an anti-Cameron conspiracy all the evidence they need

My response is simple - why did it suddenly occur to us, as a group, to make up an identical story about Cameron in the early hours of Friday morning?

even if he did say it, how can you prove he was serious? Everyone makes daft comments, and suggestions. I think your taking it waaaaay too seriously. Move on!! its old.

Also as an honest question and not being sarcastic. How many people posting about this weren't Jon Fans?

Perhaps that - like Jon's comments - should have been left up to the nation to decide? Or perhaps this would have been harder to Davina to miss as a bit of fun?

I only witnessed points 2 and 3 which were easily enough to get Cameron evicted if transmitted along with Jon's outburst.
What I can't understand is why seemingly intelligent people are burying their head in the sand about this?

I am not now nor have I ever been a "JonFan". I will confess only this:- I admired his moral fibre in confronting Ray's puerile bedroom antics. I hope I would have had his courage.
But I know that you are right in a way SteveUK people do say and some times do daft things they later regret.
What is indefensible in my mind is to pretend it never happened and scrub it from the record.

I can't prove anything, all I can do is tell you what I saw which was some of the most uncomfortable BB TV ever, and a fine example of a group acting in concert to bully an individual.

As to the second question - I have no idea, probably not many because of the nature of this forum but definitely some people posted who thought Jon was wrong to say what he did.

If more people had actually had the opportunity to see it then you'd be able to actually argue how silly we were all being and how they were all 'having a laugh'. For some reason, C4 didn't allow anyone to make that judgement. Can't imagine why.

Here's the thread:

http://forum.digitalspy.co.uk/board/...+a+personality

Aww come on you know Jon was serious when he was saying all that rubbish, just admit to yourself that Jon is rubbish along with most of what he says.

I have much admiration for your words Teapot, well said!

When you compile this tape, please also include the footage of Jon dry-humping Justine in the disco room and Justine's comments pre and post eviction about how offensive and intimidating/off-putting she found this.

I think a suitable running order would be:

(1) The Ray toe-tweaking prank
(2) Jon's holier-than-thou comments about (1) and his insinuation that Ray's behaviour was equivalent to physical abuse
(3) The dry-humping incident as described above
(4) The general pissed-off-ness at Jon's smug hypocrisy that was the context in which Cameron's comments were made.

I think the above would give a much more rounded account of what actually happened than the partial and hysterical accounts given by the blinkered Jon fans here and elsewhere.

Thank you.

(And, no, I'm not a supporter of Cameron)

Ty for the above, Teapot, very well written. I for one missed that little episode, so am very grateful to you for taking the time to post the above, and as you are not a Jon fan, you should not imo be taken as biased in the matter, so in my case I will take what you have written as fact.

Would that be the dry humping incident, where Jon was being egged on by his fellow HM's, where Justine had her legs clenched firmly round Jon and seemed to be enjoying at the time and even danced quite sudectively with Jon later, was that the disco, where Justine was laying on the floor in a provocative manner practicually begging people to simulate sex, and where one of the girls I think it was, jumped on Justine first and nothing was said. :rolleyes. etc; etc; well was it. ?????

On that note, here's what Teapot posted at the time in response to the question 'was that the best three hours of BB4 so far?'

There is a small difference between the dry humping incident and the repercussions from Jon's comment to Ray re mental abuse of the girls.

Justine took an active part in the dry hump, and certainly appeared to encourage him (wrapping her legs around him) and took 2 days to decide that he creeped her out. The footage has also been shown and discussed repetatively on both the eviction footage, BBLB, and the highlights, not to mention RI:SE.

Although Jon's comment was shown on the highlights and on the official site, and brought up by Davina on his eviction, the vitriol spouted by the other male HMS, which went on for well over an hour, were not. Nor has any part been shown or discussed on any of the above programs.

(and no, I'm not a member of the Church of Tickle)

VoR

Don't feed the trolls