TVs with Analogue - Why is this?

Mindee · 22-11-2007, 15:32

Can the experts on this subject please tell me why that all new TVs are still be made and sold with what will be an obsolete analogue tuner.

This must surely account for about a third of the price.

If Digital is the new thing and Analogue will be switched off totally in a few years to come, what is the point of having a new TV with Nicam, Teletext and the like. Most of the country must surely be able to receive Digital by now anyway.

Are the manufacturers just dumping their old technology on us and making us pay?

What's happening in other countries regarding this?

F2kSel · 22-11-2007, 15:49

Not every one can get digital yet so without an Analogue tuner they would be of little use.
The signal still isn't strong enough to get digital if you live behind hills even in digital areas.

Also even those who can get freeveiw still carn't get every channel.

gomezz · 22-11-2007, 15:51

Plus you need an analogue tuner to make use of an RF distribution system around the house.

broadz · 22-11-2007, 15:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by emmjay

Can the experts on this subject please tell me why that all new TVs are still be made and sold with what will be an obsolete analogue tuner.

This must surely account for about a third of the price.

If Digital is the new thing and Analogue will be switched off totally in a few years to come, what is the point of having a new TV with Nicam, Teletext and the like. Most of the country must surely be able to receive Digital by now anyway.

Are the manufacturers just dumping their old technology on us and making us pay?

What's happening in other countries regarding this?

A third of the price of what? The whole TV? Doubt it - seeing as a TV with both analogue and digital tuner costs about £50 more than the same TV with analogue tuner alone (Tosh 32-WLT66 vs Tosh 32-WL66).

Manufacturers who produce TVs without analogue tuners are not going to be able to sell them to people who live in Freeview black spot areas. Pretty much the whole of the UK can receive analogue TV (except Whitehaven). There's still a lot of areas that can't receive Freeview TV.

They are also going to be of no use to people who use the RF2 output on their Sky box to send a signal to a second TV - that must be tuned in using the analogue tuner on the second TV.

I still connect my Playstation One to my TV using the aerial input - again, a TV without an analogue tuner would not let me do that.

As the two scarts on my TV are taken up by my Sky box and my DVD player, my VCR is connected to my TV using the RF input. I don't watch much on video anymore, but if I did and my TV didn't have an analogue tuner then I would have to connect via scart and unplug one of the other two devices - possible, but messy.

I would guess that even when analogue TV has been switched off throughout the whole of the UK there will still be analogue tuners in a lot of TVs, purely to allow the analogue tuning of other pieces of equipment, if not the tuning of television programmes through TV aerials.

Mark. · 22-11-2007, 16:35

I bought an analogue TV earlier this year, because I wasn't paying an extra £100-£200 for an an integrated digital tuner that I'll never use.

Nigel Goodwin · 22-11-2007, 16:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by emmjay

Can the experts on this subject please tell me why that all new TVs are still be made and sold with what will be an obsolete analogue tuner.

This must surely account for about a third of the price.

If Digital is the new thing and Analogue will be switched off totally in a few years to come, what is the point of having a new TV with Nicam, Teletext and the like. Most of the country must surely be able to receive Digital by now anyway.

Are the manufacturers just dumping their old technology on us and making us pay?

What's happening in other countries regarding this?

Only a small number of the UK transmitters are digital, so sets need to have both tuners - to suit the present and the future. It would be folly to produce a TV set without an analogue tuner - although I seem to recall one manufacturer has?.

The analogue tuner itself adds relatively little to the cost of the TV, nothing like the cost of the digital tuner.

+3dB · 22-11-2007, 16:44

On a tangent, why does having integrated Freeview seem to add £50 - £100 to the cost of a telly, when seperate boxes are widely available for <£20?

broadz · 22-11-2007, 16:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by +3dB

On a tangent, why does having integrated Freeview seem to add £50 - £100 to the cost of a telly, when seperate boxes are widely available for <£20?

Saves you having to have a separate box?

Nigel Goodwin · 22-11-2007, 16:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by +3dB

On a tangent, why does having integrated Freeview seem to add £50 - £100 to the cost of a telly, when seperate boxes are widely available for <£20?

Because £20 boxes come from Turkey, where their manufacture is heavily subsidised by the EU - buy a Turkish LCD (Vestel or Beko) and you will see they are a lot cheaper than other sets as well.

ianflo · 22-11-2007, 18:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nigel Goodwin

Because £20 boxes come from Turkey, where their manufacture is heavily subsidised by the EU - buy a Turkish LCD (Vestel or Beko) and you will see they are a lot cheaper than other sets as well.

At the risk of getting into political territory, why are they subsidised by EU when Turkey isn't a member?

Or do you mean the workers are paid so little compared to EU workers that this is the subsidy?

Gilson · 22-11-2007, 19:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mark™

I bought an analogue TV earlier this year, because I wasn't paying an extra £100-£200 for an an integrated digital tuner that I'll never use.

Why? Will you die or give up TV watching in 2-4 years time or just throw the set you just bought in the skip and buy another one?

Mark. · 22-11-2007, 19:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gilson

Why? Will you die or give up TV watching in 2-4 years time or just throw the set you just bought in the skip and buy another one?

Neither.

Just glance to the left of this post and all shall become clear.

Gilson · 22-11-2007, 19:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nigel Goodwin

Because £20 boxes come from Turkey, where their manufacture is heavily subsidised by the EU - buy a Turkish LCD (Vestel or Beko) and you will see they are a lot cheaper than other sets as well.

They may be Vestel STB's but even they aren't made in Turkey any more. Most cheap STB's are made in China these days.

Gilson · 22-11-2007, 19:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mark™

Neither.

Just glance to the left of this post and all shall become clear.

As Mud! You list Sky and freeview sources so for the latter you need a DVB-T tuner? OK you dont need an analog tuner but?

Mark. · 22-11-2007, 19:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gilson

As Mud! You list Sky and freeview sources so for the latter you need a DVB-T tuner? OK you dont need an analog tuner but?

Fine...

I do not need a television with an integrated digital tuner because I have Sky+. I also have existing Freeview sources. Therefore I don't need to spend more on a TV that gives me something I will never use.

Gilson · 22-11-2007, 19:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mark™

Fine...

I do not need a television with an integrated digital tuner because I have Sky+. I also have existing Freeview sources. Therefore I don't need to spend more on a TV that gives me something I will never use.

As long as you are happy with a pile of boxes.

Mark. · 22-11-2007, 19:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gilson

As long as you are happy with a pile of boxes.

Perhaps you could explain how I can get Sky+ via a TV with an integrated tuner?

Gilson · 22-11-2007, 19:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mark™

Perhaps you could explain how I can get Sky+ via a TV with an integrated tuner?

You miss the point. You said you have freeview so you have box that inevitably sits on top of your Sky+ box. If you have an IDTV you can get rid of that top box.

Mark. · 22-11-2007, 19:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gilson

You miss the point. You said you have freeview so you have box that inevitably sits on top of your Sky+ box. If you have an IDTV you can get rid of that top box.

It's a PVR.

Gilson · 22-11-2007, 19:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mark™

It's a PVR.

You have a PVR and Sky+ !!? Why?

Mark. · 22-11-2007, 20:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gilson

You have a PVR and Sky+ !!? Why?

Why not?

The PVR was bought about 18 months ago, 15 months before we got Sky+ installed. I kept it for the (rare, but still present) occasions I want to record more than two channels at once.

Gilson · 22-11-2007, 20:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mark™

Why not?

The PVR was bought about 18 months ago, 15 months before we got Sky+ installed. I kept it for the (rare, but still present) occasions I want to record more than two channels at once.

Fair answer - but why not explain that in your OP?? Its taken 10 posts to get the full story!

Mark. · 22-11-2007, 20:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gilson

Fair answer - but why not explain that in your OP??

Because as far as I'm concerned, there was no need.

Nigel Goodwin · 22-11-2007, 20:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by ianflo

At the risk of getting into political territory, why are they subsidised by EU when Turkey isn't a member?

Apparently it's because Turkey are wanting to join the EU, and the EU subsidising electronics manufacture there is to help them meet the required criteria.

At least that's what we've been told by various sources in the trade.

Gilson · 22-11-2007, 20:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mark™

Because as far as I'm concerned, there was no need.

Well thank you for your arrogance!

22-11-2007, 15:32	#1
Mindee Forum Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: The ♥ of rural England Posts: 3,555	TVs with Analogue - Why is this? Can the experts on this subject please tell me why that all new TVs are still be made and sold with what will be an obsolete analogue tuner. This must surely account for about a third of the price. If Digital is the new thing and Analogue will be switched off totally in a few years to come, what is the point of having a new TV with Nicam, Teletext and the like. Most of the country must surely be able to receive Digital by now anyway. Are the manufacturers just dumping their old technology on us and making us pay? What's happening in other countries regarding this?

22-11-2007, 15:49	#2
F2kSel Forum Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Stoke Posts: 1,240	Not every one can get digital yet so without an Analogue tuner they would be of little use. The signal still isn't strong enough to get digital if you live behind hills even in digital areas. Also even those who can get freeveiw still carn't get every channel.

22-11-2007, 15:51	#3
gomezz Forum Member Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Buckingham Posts: 28,590	Plus you need an analogue tuner to make use of an RF distribution system around the house.

22-11-2007, 15:52	#4
broadz Banned User Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 2,313	Quote: Originally Posted by emmjay Can the experts on this subject please tell me why that all new TVs are still be made and sold with what will be an obsolete analogue tuner. This must surely account for about a third of the price. If Digital is the new thing and Analogue will be switched off totally in a few years to come, what is the point of having a new TV with Nicam, Teletext and the like. Most of the country must surely be able to receive Digital by now anyway. Are the manufacturers just dumping their old technology on us and making us pay? What's happening in other countries regarding this? A third of the price of what? The whole TV? Doubt it - seeing as a TV with both analogue and digital tuner costs about £50 more than the same TV with analogue tuner alone (Tosh 32-WLT66 vs Tosh 32-WL66). Manufacturers who produce TVs without analogue tuners are not going to be able to sell them to people who live in Freeview black spot areas. Pretty much the whole of the UK can receive analogue TV (except Whitehaven). There's still a lot of areas that can't receive Freeview TV. They are also going to be of no use to people who use the RF2 output on their Sky box to send a signal to a second TV - that must be tuned in using the analogue tuner on the second TV. I still connect my Playstation One to my TV using the aerial input - again, a TV without an analogue tuner would not let me do that. As the two scarts on my TV are taken up by my Sky box and my DVD player, my VCR is connected to my TV using the RF input. I don't watch much on video anymore, but if I did and my TV didn't have an analogue tuner then I would have to connect via scart and unplug one of the other two devices - possible, but messy. I would guess that even when analogue TV has been switched off throughout the whole of the UK there will still be analogue tuners in a lot of TVs, purely to allow the analogue tuning of other pieces of equipment, if not the tuning of television programmes through TV aerials.

22-11-2007, 16:35	#5
Mark. Forum Member Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: The dark side of the moon Posts: 51,381	I bought an analogue TV earlier this year, because I wasn't paying an extra £100-£200 for an an integrated digital tuner that I'll never use.

22-11-2007, 16:38	#6
Nigel Goodwin Forum Member Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: North Derbyshire Posts: 41,789	Quote: Originally Posted by emmjay Can the experts on this subject please tell me why that all new TVs are still be made and sold with what will be an obsolete analogue tuner. This must surely account for about a third of the price. If Digital is the new thing and Analogue will be switched off totally in a few years to come, what is the point of having a new TV with Nicam, Teletext and the like. Most of the country must surely be able to receive Digital by now anyway. Are the manufacturers just dumping their old technology on us and making us pay? What's happening in other countries regarding this? Only a small number of the UK transmitters are digital, so sets need to have both tuners - to suit the present and the future. It would be folly to produce a TV set without an analogue tuner - although I seem to recall one manufacturer has?. The analogue tuner itself adds relatively little to the cost of the TV, nothing like the cost of the digital tuner.

22-11-2007, 16:44	#7
+3dB Forum Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: London Posts: 1,716	On a tangent, why does having integrated Freeview seem to add £50 - £100 to the cost of a telly, when seperate boxes are widely available for <£20?

22-11-2007, 16:45	#8
broadz Banned User Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 2,313	Quote: Originally Posted by +3dB On a tangent, why does having integrated Freeview seem to add £50 - £100 to the cost of a telly, when seperate boxes are widely available for <£20? Saves you having to have a separate box?

22-11-2007, 16:46	#9
Nigel Goodwin Forum Member Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: North Derbyshire Posts: 41,789	Quote: Originally Posted by +3dB On a tangent, why does having integrated Freeview seem to add £50 - £100 to the cost of a telly, when seperate boxes are widely available for <£20? Because £20 boxes come from Turkey, where their manufacture is heavily subsidised by the EU - buy a Turkish LCD (Vestel or Beko) and you will see they are a lot cheaper than other sets as well.

22-11-2007, 18:00	#10
ianflo Forum Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Durham. Posts: 259	Quote: Originally Posted by Nigel Goodwin Because £20 boxes come from Turkey, where their manufacture is heavily subsidised by the EU - buy a Turkish LCD (Vestel or Beko) and you will see they are a lot cheaper than other sets as well. At the risk of getting into political territory, why are they subsidised by EU when Turkey isn't a member? Or do you mean the workers are paid so little compared to EU workers that this is the subsidy?

22-11-2007, 19:39	#11
Gilson Forum Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 1,145	Quote: Originally Posted by Mark™ I bought an analogue TV earlier this year, because I wasn't paying an extra £100-£200 for an an integrated digital tuner that I'll never use. Why? Will you die or give up TV watching in 2-4 years time or just throw the set you just bought in the skip and buy another one?

22-11-2007, 19:42	#12
Mark. Forum Member Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: The dark side of the moon Posts: 51,381	Quote: Originally Posted by Gilson Why? Will you die or give up TV watching in 2-4 years time or just throw the set you just bought in the skip and buy another one? Neither. Just glance to the left of this post and all shall become clear.

22-11-2007, 19:43	#13
Gilson Forum Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 1,145	Quote: Originally Posted by Nigel Goodwin Because £20 boxes come from Turkey, where their manufacture is heavily subsidised by the EU - buy a Turkish LCD (Vestel or Beko) and you will see they are a lot cheaper than other sets as well. They may be Vestel STB's but even they aren't made in Turkey any more. Most cheap STB's are made in China these days.

22-11-2007, 19:48	#14
Gilson Forum Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 1,145	Quote: Originally Posted by Mark™ Neither. Just glance to the left of this post and all shall become clear. As Mud! You list Sky and freeview sources so for the latter you need a DVB-T tuner? OK you dont need an analog tuner but?

22-11-2007, 19:49	#15
Mark. Forum Member Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: The dark side of the moon Posts: 51,381	Quote: Originally Posted by Gilson As Mud! You list Sky and freeview sources so for the latter you need a DVB-T tuner? OK you dont need an analog tuner but? Fine... I do not need a television with an integrated digital tuner because I have Sky+. I also have existing Freeview sources. Therefore I don't need to spend more on a TV that gives me something I will never use.

22-11-2007, 19:51	#16
Gilson Forum Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 1,145	Quote: Originally Posted by Mark™ Fine... I do not need a television with an integrated digital tuner because I have Sky+. I also have existing Freeview sources. Therefore I don't need to spend more on a TV that gives me something I will never use. As long as you are happy with a pile of boxes.

22-11-2007, 19:52	#17
Mark. Forum Member Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: The dark side of the moon Posts: 51,381	Quote: Originally Posted by Gilson As long as you are happy with a pile of boxes. Perhaps you could explain how I can get Sky+ via a TV with an integrated tuner?

22-11-2007, 19:55	#18
Gilson Forum Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 1,145	Quote: Originally Posted by Mark™ Perhaps you could explain how I can get Sky+ via a TV with an integrated tuner? You miss the point. You said you have freeview so you have box that inevitably sits on top of your Sky+ box. If you have an IDTV you can get rid of that top box.

22-11-2007, 19:56	#19
Mark. Forum Member Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: The dark side of the moon Posts: 51,381	Quote: Originally Posted by Gilson You miss the point. You said you have freeview so you have box that inevitably sits on top of your Sky+ box. If you have an IDTV you can get rid of that top box. It's a PVR.

22-11-2007, 19:57	#20
Gilson Forum Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 1,145	Quote: Originally Posted by Mark™ It's a PVR. You have a PVR and Sky+ !!? Why?

22-11-2007, 20:00	#21
Mark. Forum Member Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: The dark side of the moon Posts: 51,381	Quote: Originally Posted by Gilson You have a PVR and Sky+ !!? Why? Why not? The PVR was bought about 18 months ago, 15 months before we got Sky+ installed. I kept it for the (rare, but still present) occasions I want to record more than two channels at once.

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TVs with Analogue - Why is this?

22-11-2007, 20:01	#22
Gilson Forum Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 1,145	Quote: Originally Posted by Mark™ Why not? The PVR was bought about 18 months ago, 15 months before we got Sky+ installed. I kept it for the (rare, but still present) occasions I want to record more than two channels at once. Fair answer - but why not explain that in your OP?? Its taken 10 posts to get the full story!

22-11-2007, 20:03	#23
Mark. Forum Member Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: The dark side of the moon Posts: 51,381	Quote: Originally Posted by Gilson Fair answer - but why not explain that in your OP?? Because as far as I'm concerned, there was no need.

22-11-2007, 20:05	#24
Nigel Goodwin Forum Member Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: North Derbyshire Posts: 41,789	Quote: Originally Posted by ianflo At the risk of getting into political territory, why are they subsidised by EU when Turkey isn't a member? Apparently it's because Turkey are wanting to join the EU, and the EU subsidising electronics manufacture there is to help them meet the required criteria. At least that's what we've been told by various sources in the trade.

22-11-2007, 20:06	#25
Gilson Forum Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 1,145	Quote: Originally Posted by Mark™ Because as far as I'm concerned, there was no need. Well thank you for your arrogance!