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TVs with Analogue - Why is this?
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Gilson
22-11-2007
Originally Posted by Nigel Goodwin:
“Apparently it's because Turkey are wanting to join the EU, and the EU subsidising electronics manufacture there is to help them meet the required criteria.

At least that's what we've been told by various sources in the trade.”

As I said above Nigel I dont think much Vestel or Beko electronic gear is actually made in Turkey today - most of it says "Made in China" on the back these days. I think it is Vestel designed maybe but?
Nigel Goodwin
23-11-2007
Originally Posted by Gilson:
“As I said above Nigel I dont think much Vestel or Beko electronic gear is actually made in Turkey today - most of it says "Made in China" on the back these days. I think it is Vestel designed maybe but?”

Perhaps so?, but it still probably comes through Turkey anyway.
broadz
23-11-2007
Originally Posted by Gilson:
“Well thank you for your arrogance!”

Gilson, I often agree with much of what you post, but in this instance I can't understand why you are having a go at Mark. He hasn't insulted anybody, or said anything he shouldn't - all he has done is said that he saved some money by buying a TV which did not include a digital tuner, purely because he has two alternative sources of digital TV already.

I know two people who both bought the Tosh 32-WL66 rather than the 32-WLT66, and each saved themselves fifty quid in the process. One doesn't even have a TV aerial, all of his viewing is done via his Sky box, the other already has two digital Freeview tuners, one in an STB and one in a DVD recorder, so doesn't need a third. I see no reason to insult either of them.

I don't want to get into a row about this - as I said, I often appreciate your informative views, I just don't understand the antagonism towards somebody who I don't think has done anything wrong. Other than not explaining outright "I already have alternative sources for digital TV" when you first questioned his wisdom regarding the lack of a digital tuner in his TV, instead Mark suggested "Look to the left" which did imply the same thing in a slightly wise-ass manner, he hasn't insulted anybody or misled anybody in any way.
Mindee
23-11-2007
Hi Gents.

Going back to my original question, I think many of you have answered well.

It does appear though that there are circumstances for many of us that do not require (now and in the future) to have a TV with an analogue function. Or indeed for some, the opposite is true.

Maybe I am fortunate to live in a location where I get a good digital signal, even by using a standard non-digital aerial and only require the analogue reception for watching on an old TV upstairs.

Also, please continue to comment on what is happening to the digital switchover in other countries. I was under the impression that most TV sets in Finland were now all and only with digital tuners.
niall campbell
23-11-2007
as freeview going to be out dated around 2010 with freeview mk2 you would be better saving money in not having an in built tuner
Mindee
23-11-2007
Originally Posted by niall campbell:
“as freeview going to be out dated around 2010 with freeview mk2 you would be better saving money in not having an in built tuner”

I thought the 'software updates' function was to take care of this.
soulboy77
23-11-2007
Originally Posted by niall campbell:
“as freeview going to be out dated around 2010 with freeview mk2 you would be better saving money in not having an in built tuner”

Other than some of the cheapo rubbish TVs they all come with digital tuners now so you don't really have the choice. Though some manufacturers do make non-digital tuner versions of their TVs, shops are less willing to stock them.
FlatProblem
23-11-2007
Originally Posted by emmjay:
“If Digital is the new thing and Analogue will be switched off totally in a few years to come, what is the point of having a new TV with Nicam, Teletext and the like. Most of the country must surely be able to receive Digital by now anyway.”

DTT isn't broadcast at full strength yet (until Analogue is killed off in 2012), I often change from Freeview to analogue to watch channel 4, as the MUX that carries Channel4 is weak.

As for buying TVs withOUT an integrated digital tuner - I bought the 37WL66 rather than the 37WLT66 as it was £150 cheaper at the time - with that £150 (+ another £30) I bought a Humax PVR. If the Humax goes wrong, I buy another for £180, if an integrated tunner goes wrong - I'd be stuffed (or in for alot of calls to Toshiba at least)!

Ideally I'd have bought a TV with no tunner at all (though the analogue tunner has been useful recently) but you seem to have to pay alot more for TVs with less features
niall campbell
23-11-2007
no thats for software issues

the HD from bbc etc will take up huge chunks of data from the space available for freeview so some channels will be transmitting on a lower bitstream with a poorer picture and sound

this is already happening with DAB radio and a FM radio will have a better sound on most radio stations. Only satellite ( sky for example ) broadcast on the full bitrate available on radio

some radio stations are only on mono sound to try and squeeze more stations on the limited bandwith available

its a crazy situation and there will be a lot of unhappy people with their expensive tellys having their inbuilt tuners gefunct


a few things to plough through

http://www.bbc.co.uk/bbctrust/assets...v/sagentia.pdf


http://www.ukfree.tv/fullstory.php?storyid=1107051316
soulboy77
23-11-2007
Originally Posted by emmjay:
“I thought the 'software updates' function was to take care of this.”

Unfortunately the basic 'digital tuning' and 'decoding' is performed by specific hardware chips that can't be updated
niall campbell
23-11-2007
Originally Posted by FlatProblem:
“DTT isn't broadcast at full strength yet (until Analogue is killed off in 2012), I often change from Freeview to analogue to watch channel 4, as the MUX that carries Channel4 is weak.

As for buying TVs withOUT an integrated digital tuner - I bought the 37WL66 rather than the 37WLT66 as it was £150 cheaper at the time - with that £150 (+ another £30) I bought a Humax PVR. If the Humax goes wrong, I buy another for £180, if an integrated tunner goes wrong - I'd be stuffed (or in for alot of calls to Toshiba at least)!

Ideally I'd have bought a TV with no tunner at all (though the analogue tunner has been useful recently) but you seem to have to pay alot more for TVs with less features ”

whilst it will help digital signal will be transmitted at a higher rate it will still be difficult for some households to get and with the digital cliff effect of tuning ( you either get it or not )

whilst you can get a card with a box for £20 , a lot of people are still paying a premium for integrated tellys


whilst you and I would gladly spend £180 every so often we have to cater for the masses and £20 every 10 years for new technologies cant be too bad ....................... but is the upheavel worth it? twin aerials and the like?
Mindee
23-11-2007
Originally Posted by niall campbell:
“
........................its a crazy situation and there will be a lot of unhappy people with their expensive tellys having their inbuilt tuners gefunct


”

If that is the case, what the hell are we being sold 'today'.
niall campbell
23-11-2007
we are being sold todays technology, not tommorows


thats the get out clause anyway

you could argue tellys with analogue tuner outdated so why adverise them/ sell them

PC WORLD are the worst offenders. Computing technology moves daily forward but you are getting sold 18 months ago technology at inflated prices .......... e.g. wireless routers at 64mb when it should be 108mb plus for £50. They are making a fortune at poor joe publics ignorance or unwittling not knowing any different
Mindee
23-11-2007
Originally Posted by niall campbell:
“we are being sold todays technology, not tommorows


thats the get out clause anyway

you could argue tellys with analogue tuner outdated so why adverise them/ sell them

PC WORLD are the worst offenders. Computing technology moves daily forward but you are getting sold 18 months ago technology at inflated prices .......... e.g. wireless routers at 64mb when it should be 108mb plus for £50. They are making a fortune at poor joe publics ignorance or unwittling not knowing any different”

Wouldn't the advice then be to anyone looking to buy a new TV, to go for a cheaper model that will do for 2 or 3 years instead of forking out over a thousand quid for something with built-in obsolescence.
gomezz
23-11-2007
Not anyone. Some people can afford to buy a new expensive TV as often as they change their socks.
broadz
23-11-2007
Originally Posted by emmjay:
“Wouldn't the advice then be to anyone looking to buy a new TV, to go for a cheaper model that will do for 2 or 3 years instead of forking out over a thousand quid for something with built-in obsolescence.”

Not completely obsolete though is it? A new TV with a built-in digital tuner is also likely to be widescreen, flat panel and HD Ready. My newest telly has got a built-in Freeview tuner, but I can't remember the last time I watched something on Freeview. I think most people are now using their TV as much as a monitor to display Sky, Sky HD, DVDs, videos, video games etc etc etc as they are for watching things on it via the built-in digital tuner. From that point of view the TV will not need replacing, even if the digital tuner does not pick up everything that will eventually be available.

Something being sold today can't have tomorrow's technology in it, if tomorrow's technology does not yet exist (at an affordable price). But as long as the end-user finds an alternative method of getting the signal from a machine with tomorrow's technology to today's television set, the TV doesn't become redundant.
niall campbell
23-11-2007
i would recommend buy ANY make of telly as long as it has 2 or 3 hdmi inputs

its the new scart

and if the telly has 2 or 3 scarts as well for your old dvd/ video player its keeping your old machines alive untill they blow up

scart sockets hopefully are rgb enabled
Mindee
23-11-2007
Originally Posted by gomezz:
“Not anyone. Some people can afford to buy a new expensive TV as often as they change their socks.”

The industry relies on these people then.

Originally Posted by broadz:
“Not completely obsolete though is it? A new TV with a built-in digital tuner is also likely to be widescreen, flat panel and HD Ready. My newest telly has got a built-in Freeview tuner, but I can't remember the last time I watched something on Freeview. I think most people are now using their TV as much as a monitor to display Sky, Sky HD, DVDs, videos, video games etc etc etc as they are for watching things on it via the built-in digital tuner. From that point of view the TV will not need replacing, even if the digital tuner does not pick up everything that will eventually be available.

Something being sold today can't have tomorrow's technology in it, if tomorrow's technology does not yet exist (at an affordable price). But as long as the end-user finds an alternative method of getting the signal from a machine with tomorrow's technology to today's television set, the TV doesn't become redundant.”

Good point.
Nigel Goodwin
23-11-2007
Originally Posted by emmjay:
“Wouldn't the advice then be to anyone looking to buy a new TV, to go for a cheaper model that will do for 2 or 3 years instead of forking out over a thousand quid for something with built-in obsolescence.”

No, because a cheaper TV generally has a much inferior picture - the manufacturers are producing and selling sets to the current specifications, indeed there are no later specifications yet - if indeed there ever will be?.
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