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Big speakers - little speakers. Same volume, how?


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Old 23-11-2007, 13:17
jarr
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As the title says, how come the tall thin speakers are the same 1000w as the small cube ones? Theoretically the bigger the louder it is?
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Old 23-11-2007, 13:50
Nigel Goodwin
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First off I would consider 1000W to be entirely imaginary!, but speakers have different efficiencies - a small one that's more efficient could be louder than a larger one.

But generally you need big speakers for high volumes and high powers.
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Old 23-11-2007, 14:17
ray_01
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First off I would consider 1000W to be entirely imaginary!, but speakers have different efficiencies - a small one that's more efficient could be louder than a larger one.

But generally you need big speakers for high volumes and high powers.
What makes Bose speakers so good/loud for their size?
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Old 23-11-2007, 14:42
JBlink
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What makes Bose speakers so good/loud for their size?
The big sub-woofer helps..............
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Old 23-11-2007, 15:03
Nigel Goodwin
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What makes Bose speakers so good/loud for their size?
Well Bose aren't generally considered 'good', they are more a fashion statement than high quality audio.

But as already suggested, the bass comes from the big sub-woofer, the satellite speakers are only for high frequencies and don't need to be big.
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Old 23-11-2007, 18:34
Paul M C
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Perhaps someone could kindly help me regarding a query I have regarding 5.1 speaker set ups... I'll explain...

I have at present an old (2004) Sony 5.1 Surround Sound system - an all in one set up. (Model number DAV SB100 if that means anything to anyone!) Basically, back then it was £200 which I don't suppose was a lot - I know it's only like an entry level set up. I also realise that "all in ones" sometimes don't give the best sound - I know seperates are the best answer.....

Anyway, going back to my system: The total wattage is 330RMS - 80w sub (quite large box) and five satellite's - each 50w. The oms (that funny symbol on the back of the speaker - rated impendence?) is 8.

I have tried recently to "upgrade" this set up to a more bassy/powerful set up. I don't want to spend a lot of money, so I don't expect to get blown away by the sound quality. I have tried the Sony DAV230 and also the Panasonic PT450 - both units fairly cheap, but the Sony says 800w rms and the panny says 1000w.

However, both these units sound far, far worse than my current set up! The satellite speakers on these newer models say rated at 3 omhz (mine are 8) - does this make a big difference in sound? I find that my old Sony set up sounds far more powerful and bassy. The sub on the Panasonic is quite small compared to my present sub - although the Panasonic sub is rated much higher in wattage. Is the size of the sub going to make a difference - as I say my current sub is quite big - and compared to these other new ones I've tested - it sounds superior !

So why is it that "more poweful" (supposedly) wattages (over 3 x as powerful as my current set up) sound so tinny to me?

Finally - one more quick question: If I get the Panasonic PT450 could I use my existing Sony speakers with this set up to try and get more powerful sound? ( I am thinking of the sub mainly) - I presume you can just wire in the wires from the PT450 into the Sony speakers in the +/-terminals???

Any help really appreciated!!!!!!

Cheers
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Old 23-11-2007, 20:39
Pepperoni Man
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Well Bose aren't generally considered 'good', they are more a fashion statement than high quality audio.
Exactly. B&O is another such example
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Old 23-11-2007, 21:08
Nigel Goodwin
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So why is it that "more poweful" (supposedly) wattages (over 3 x as powerful as my current set up) sound so tinny to me?
The power values are often vastly over rated, although if they are specifying RMS it should really be a fairly honest value?.

Much of the reason is probably crappy speakers as well, at the price these units sell for there's no way you would get a pair of decent speakers, never mind six of them and an amp!.

The Japanese have never had much of a name for making speakers, the big names are mostly British and European.

But all these cheap ones are going to be made in China anyway - as someone who repairs such stuff, I have occasion to take speakers to pieces. So you've got a Sony speaker cabinet that says "100W RMS" on the back, you take it to pieces and inside there's a 'bass' unit that says "made in China 20W" on the driver itself.

I think the desperate quest for higher 'powers' has resulted in some VERY creative measurements in recent years!.
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Old 24-11-2007, 10:14
paulr2006
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As Nigel say's I think you will find this is Manufacturers being "Creative" with output measurements. I have a Denon AVR3805 Amplifier which is rated at 120W RMS into 8 ohms or 160W Rms into 6 ohms & whilst this is a 7.1 Amp. I only use 5 speakers plus the sub. The sub has it's own 250W RMS amplifier so discount this from the total output. I have a reasonably large room & at just over half to three quarters volume you can see pictures shaking & hear doors rattling & this is possibly around 5 x 80W ! My previous set up was a Panosonic all in one which according to the specs was around 1000W RMS but in real terms it could not play half as loud as my current setup. I think a lot is also due to sustainable power; technicaly it may be a able to reach a particular output for a few milliseconds but due to inferior power supplies can't maintain it.

I very much doubt that changing the speakers will give you any improvement but what might help a lot is adding another Active Sub woofer (a quality one) you could perhaps pick one up second hand for around £100 or try Richersounds.
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Old 27-11-2007, 11:13
Glawster2002
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I think the desperate quest for higher 'powers' has resulted in some VERY creative measurements in recent years!.
The problem is that the "quoted" figures are meaningless anyway!

Say a pair of speakers are rated at 100w. A poor quality amp with a rated output of 50w is much more likely to damage those speakers than a high quality amp rated at 150w.

People are so hung-up on output power, these days, hence the meaningless statements made by manufacturers who really should know better, it's the quality of the signal going in to the speakers that's important, not the supposed power, any hi-fi dealer will tell you that.
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Old 27-11-2007, 13:15
Decola
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The wattage number written on loudspeakers, only shows how much power the speaker is capable of handling, not how much sound it can generate, or how good or bad it sounds.

Maximum sound pressure level (SPL) is how loud a speaker will go - normally measured in decibels, and its efficiency is shown in decibels per watt (dB W). The higher the decibel number shown, the more sound you'll get per watt input from the amplifier.

In practice, inexpensive set ups can sound quite nice at low volumes, but as soon as the sound is cranked up, speaker cabinets start reasonating, speaker cones break up and sound harsh, and the amplifier distorts - some of this distortion can wreck speakers.

If in doubt, listen before you buy, but also be aware that new speakers tend to 'break in' over time and sound less hard than when brand new.
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