Great no change required ... stick with AUTO PADDING.

Doesn't that (with this disabling series record) completly demolish the concept behind Freeview Playback?

That in order to rcord everything with a reasonable degree of accuracy you have to compltly turn off all the Freeview Playback features for the channels that support them (Unless you have two PVRs).

And about a month since the last online update. What's your point?

It was only a couple of months before that update that another one was realised, and in that time autopadding, chaseplay were first introduced. In those 18 months Humax have added series record, "accurate record", alterate instance record, split instance record, increased the number of timers, increased the number of search results, improved the playlist, improved the EPG, speed up EPG population, made PIP more widly availble, added weekday/weekend timers...

You still haven't explained why it will be so much work to get autopadding and series record working together, than separatly (I'm sure a beta tester said they did in an early beta) or where you 6-12 months figure comes from.

None of the contributors here have source code access so nobody knows for certain. However the feedback that has come via the Humax contacts from the software developers is that it is not straightforward. We can observe that they are struggling to keep the existing padding features working properly in the latest version of the software.

I think it is reasonable for people to request padding with Series Link but unreasonable for people to claim it would be easy to do.

I will repeat, our experience is that Series Link with accurate recording is working better for us than our previous strategy with padding.

Hi


So no sources quoted, I thought just as much, what a surprise.

Mmmm okay, improving all the time is it? http://www.digitalspy.co.uk/forums/s...d.php?t=710551

Regards

Phil

Hi


It should really be mandatory in the specifications. I wonder if we will see some TV companies do as they did with PDC, a partial implementation. Only when the schedule is out by a lot will they slip the Now/Next data to match the new time slots, if everything runs okay (give or take the odd couple of minutes) they will just keep the Now/Next data automated and let people live with losing the odd few minutes.

This is how the commercial channels ended up using PDC. With accurate recording when everything runs to the normal schedule, which must be 99% of the time, we end up just recording using the exact start/end times and missing the ends and starts will be all to common.

Regards

Phil

Personally from my first week with it I've now watched most of the 3 programmes that lost reasonable amounts of the beggining/end (all on C4) - whilst manually padding for non-FP channels.

With auto padding I I can only ever remember missing part of one programme. Cleary it is a lot less reliable when using non-FP channels (or more acurately needs manual padding), and even on FP channels people's expirances seem to vary.

Also, I'm not saying it's easy, but the 6-12 month figure implies it's harder to implement than virtually anything that has gone before. Whilst I assume it's an estimate from the poster and not from Humax, unless there is something I'm not seeing it seems an unreasonably long estimate.

And your sources that it will never improve....

OK ... so 1 month after Humax release the next OTA they will have an OTA of FP2 with autopadding released...

Coding is one thing testing is another ....

I think you are probably right there. There is nothing to stop the specification saying all Freeview Playback PVRs need to opperate an autopadding system by default (and just for the hell of it specify a time like 2 minutes pre and 3 minutes post padding for example). This in order to help deal with broadcaster schedule slipages. Then, again as part of the spec, say all Freeview Playback PVRs should also be able to monitor Now&Next broadcasts so that if a programme looks to be starting earlier than the 2 minutes padding or end later than the 3 minutes padding to adjust recording time accordingly.

Maybe one day the specs will be enhanced who knows but not holding my breath. I wouldnt be suprised though if there are one or two manufacturers out there in the future that will just decide to make that sort of enhancement themselves anyway. But most will just stick to the letter of the spec.

Beta testers have made their opinions and requests very clear about a gobal series link function that just works whichever of the two recording methods are chosen (AP or AR), loads of times. The SL with AP was so buggy that, what with all the buggy issues to deal with for just conforming to the actual spec in itself, meant its development had to be dropped from the main task at hand. The engineers have been fully engaged on big projects from various markets so we wont see engineering work to add features. Just bug fixes and making sure the machine is conformant to the specs. We have been told that there is no reason why SL with AP cant be bunged into the development work for the next PVR when they return to it again. This has been delayed due to the dev work on the 9200t mainly but also because of industry developments that are taking place on the DTT scene. They've got a list of things they couldn't do on the 9200t (like stored EPG, folders etc etc as well as mixing AP into the Freeview Playback specs in some way) to try to work into next models. And I think they firmly see constant improvements and requests for the 9200t to have to stop so that it can get the next model off the ground if they have that scheduled in to come back to.

In the mean time the Freeview Playback machines coming out now are stuck on strict spec conformancy with no AP options. We too are basically stuck with the machine as we bought it or the option of Freeview Playback as found in new machines with the OTA update. We may be the only lucky owners with those options but at the same time it is also tough luck we cant get more features added in as we like them, like the mixing of autopadding into the Freeview Playback side of the machine, as I guess we have kind of just got used to the luxury of having the manufacturer bung in wishlist things we like as well as bug fixes.

Hi


The 6-12 month figure completely disregard, it was made up and doesn't come from any reliable source.

The reality is how much profit are Humax making on these things against how many sales they may make or lose by not having the feature added, and what resources they have available.

What is clear though with the analogue switch off only a few years away they need to be at the top of the game to capture as many sales as possible.

The Humax is also a pricey bit of kit compared to some other boxes, not to mention the likes of Tesco that will flood their shelves with ever more cheaper devices as we head towards analogue switch off, so Humax need to justify being at the high end of the range price wise with features and benefits. The only real way to get decent sales when you have one of the higher priced products is for other owners to recommend that the extra outlay is well justified to friends and family, and one way to ensure that is to make sure the features being requested by the current customer base are listened to and implemented.

Regards

Phil

Hi


Cheers for the update. All makes perfect sense.

So to get auto padding with series link will likely mean buying a new box, no surprise there really that they have got to the point (or are near) to drawing a line underneath the 9200T. I suspect the code base is quite fragile after all this time, and with new boxes/hardware comes the opportunity not to make the same mistakes again.

Regards

Phil

Congratulations on 4,000 posts.

Does this mean stuff like the proposed push vod, or just existing specs (but then I can't see how that's not the same as bug fixes)?

I think it will mean in the future Humax will let bug fixes continue where they become necessary but start saying no to new features and put them on their list of things to look into for next PVR. Freeview havn't engaged with manufacturers about their VOD idea yet but they have been on Freeview Playback related stuff, and also with their Freesat PVR partners too.

And they'll have to balance the resources (system memory) consumed by additions to the firmware with those required to maintain current functionality.

So instead of a conservatively 6-12 months ... its going to be never...

Anyone any idea when channel 5 is going to support freeview playback? The kids are getting fed up missing the end of all their programmes!
Last edited by jaffacake : 19-12-2007 at 21:21

Hi


It might be never, which is why it would have been good to have had the option of autopadding with Freeview Playback, even the FP specifications specifically mention it as being an allowed option.

Still if Humax are busy with more important things like "Active Standby" I guess we will have to go without

Regards

Phil

It is very quick and easy to manually pad reservations-currently essential for Channel 5 programmes.