[eddiewood]

Those interesting in 46" TVs might want to look out for What HiFi Sound & Vision, out 13th December.

Here's a quote from their forum (it is the Samsung LE46F86 the post refers to):

"We've tested the Samsung - there's a double-page spread review of it, which goes into detail of every aspect of its performance - in our December issue supplement (out now). It's a superb, five-star set.

In our January issue (out 13th December), the Samsung is being Group Tested against all the other latest 46 & 47in flatscreens (models from Sony, Toshiba and others, including that Sharp I think - sorry, haven't got the full list here at home with me). Should be a great test in time for Christmas...."

[stvn758]

I just ordered a 46in Samsung, about £1300 and I don't have to start paying for it for another year.

Would of liked the 52in, but that was a thousand extra, can't see why an extra six inches costs that much. I just realised how happy I am with my cheap 17in PC monitor, movies and games etc, so took the plunge - full HD too.

Can't wait.

[eddiewood]

Quote:

Originally Posted by stvn758

I just ordered a 46in Samsung, about £1300 and I don't have to start paying for it for another year.

Would of liked the 52in, but that was a thousand extra, can't see why an extra six inches costs that much.

Six inches? There is a joke there somewhere, but I'll refrain.

Which model number? The M87? The F86 is usually a little bit more, and the 52" F96 LED one is about a grand more.

I am looking at the 46" F86 (despite it's problems), only put off the F96 because I might be sitting too close to a 52".

Where did you order it from?

[Nigel Goodwin]

Quote:

Originally Posted by eddiewood

Those interesting in 46" TVs might want to look out for What HiFi Sound & Vision, out 13th December.

Not seen it, and wouldn't buy it, but from what I've seen in the past their reviews usually seem based on advertising content more than anything else?.

[eddiewood]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nigel Goodwin

Not seen it, and wouldn't buy it, but from what I've seen in the past their reviews usually seem based on advertising content more than anything else?.

I picked up their last issue, that didn't appear to be the case.

[Baccattack]

Would be nice to think that group test might include the Planer PD470, although this is a 47" screen. Outside of the Fujitsu Aviamo 37" it seems to be the only other attempt to produce a genuinely high quality LCD.

[Nigel Goodwin]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Baccattack

Would be nice to think that group test might include the Planer PD470, although this is a 47" screen. Outside of the Fujitsu Aviamo 37" it seems to be the only other attempt to produce a genuinely high quality LCD.

'High quality' in what way?.

[eddiewood]

Never heard of it:

02/12/2007 Stonking Debut LCD!
With the words ‘possibly the single most subtle and satisfying LCD TV picture performance that money can buy’, John Archer concludes an overwhelmingly positive first review of the Planar PD470 in What Video & HDTV magazine. Awarding a Best Buy badge, he proclaims the ‘sensational purity’ of its pictures: HD images ‘look utterly pristine, with no grain, no noise and no processing glitches.’ Even more remarkable is how the 470’s Cortez processing engine ‘rebuilds’ standard def images ‘to fit the screen’s full HD panel better than, quite possibly, any other processing engine we’ve seen to date.’ Motion handling is ‘spectacularly good’, colours ‘spectacularly vivid’, producing ‘arguably the most believable skin tones on LCD’, and the black level ‘puts the cinema into home cinema’. Test results show that a post-calibration CIE chart is as close to perfect as you could hope and RGB levels read an ideal 100/100/100%.

[stvn758]

Quote:

Originally Posted by eddiewood

Six inches? There is a joke there somewhere, but I'll refrain.

Which model number? The M87? The F86 is usually a little bit more, and the 52" F96 LED one is about a grand more.

I am looking at the 46" F86 (despite it's problems), only put off the F96 because I might be sitting too close to a 52".

Where did you order it from?

It's LE46N87BDX/XEU, got it off Choice. Normally wouldn't buy something this expensive from a catalogue as they overprice everything, but after checking internet prices and taking the 12% cashback off it's barely a hundred quid more, and buy now pay in a year - couldn't resist.

[buster1328]

I do not know if it i the same model as i know very litle about he gutts of them but I boughtmine from richer sounds embrs area for £999 plus £99 for the fivew year warrenty

[Kojack]

Its amazing what results/reviews a double page spread can buy

[eddiewood]

It's also amazing that retailers don't read the reviews and display the TVs that are winning reviews.

I went out looking for a 46" Sammy F86 to play with, which was the 46" best buy in their last issue. Not one retailer had one on display.

Comet(?) had a 40" and when I asked about the 46" version they tried to sell me a 46" M87 instead Apparently the M87 is the same as the F86, LMFAO, don't you just love clueless sales people.

I tried a few local places, John Lewis, Comet, Currys, Martin Dawes, but could not find any TV on display worth looking at. No 46" F86's, no Sony X3500's, not even Toshiba Z's. They all had the same tired old mix of yesterdays LCD TVs. I had to go to a Sony Centre to see the X series.

Now if I was a retailer I'd be reading popular mags and making sure I had review winning sets on display. Surely it is common sense that people will read the mag and then want to see and buy one?

Don't even get me started on not calibrating them, a monkey could do a better job. I don't expect them to be perfect, but how on earth can you be expected to sell a TV showing a poor picture?

[Baccattack]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nigel Goodwin

'High quality' in what way?.

Build quality, quality control, picture processing, black level, motion handling, colour decoding.

In my view the overwhelming majority of LCD manufacturers have concentrated on cost reduction and increasing pixel count (an easy win and something that the marketers can shout about) at the expense of other attributes which would help their screens to produce far better pictures.

Quality control has been abysmal on some sets whith many reports of banding (e.g Sharpe's first gen 1080p pannels) and clouding (e.g a lot of Sony's pannels including the W2000 series). A lot of screens still can't do basic film detection with 2:2/3:2 pull down, nevermind scaling the image to the pannels native resolution competently. Most sets still suffer from poor black levels, only now is this starting to be addressed with LED backlighting. Motion handling on many sets is still poor, what is the point of having a 1080 line screen if once you display a moving image that resolution drops in half? How about the ability to calibrate to D65.

This is not to say that many plasma manufacturers haven't gone down the same route, only that there seems to be more choice at the higher end of the market in this catagory. If prices had remained stable at the level they were 2/3 years ago I think the quality of product on the market today would be far higher. Interestingly however I think it might be starting to move back in that direction. Samsungs latest panels with LED back lighting are a step in that direction. Pioneers 'kuro' screens have been well received and seem to be selling pretty well despite the far higher cost when compared to the likes of Panasonic and Samsung. It's hard to see prices coming down much further and manufactures will have to start looking to iimprove the quality of the screens in order to justify a higher cost and stop the errosion of their proffit margins

[Nigel Goodwin]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Baccattack

Build quality, quality control, picture processing, black level, motion handling, colour decoding.

Interesting that you would compare a monitor (not a TV) with TV's, and a monitor that's not even a UK one - have you compared top make modern LCD's side by side with one of these monitors you're so fond of?.

Certainly all the qualities you mention above are pretty exceptional on good modern sets, and I'm doubtful your expense monitor betters them on many (or any?) of thsoe criteria.

'Colour Decoding' was an interesting choice though, will an American monitor even decode PAL? - and in any case, colour decoding is pretty well dead now, and will be completely so in a few more years.

[Baccattack]

Maybe it is a little unfair to compare a monitor aimed at the custom install market with TV's aimed at the domestic consumer but my point was in respect of the panel performance which can be asessed independently of nicities such as a built in tuner and speakers.

The two panels I mentioned were as examples, I haven't seen either in the flesh although would love the oppourtunity to do so, however it's not hard to see that they are aimed at people concerned with performance for whom cost is not a concern. The review of the Planar in the current issue of What video & HDTV would seem to bear this out. You can check the spec of the panel here if you want. I have seen most of the current crop of LCD flat panels, there happens to be a pretty good dealer in the city where I work.

I'm not sure I'd call colour decoding dead. ITU standards for NTSC/PAL/HD video are clearly defined and it's important that, assuming your source is sending the correct information, that this is then displayed accurately by the display.

Anyway rather than carry on further myself, as I'm certainly no expert on this subject, pehaps I could hand you over to more capable hands and refer you to this excellent post.

[Nigel Goodwin]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Baccattack

I'm not sure I'd call colour decoding dead. ITU standards for NTSC/PAL/HD video are clearly defined and it's important that, assuming your source is sending the correct information, that this is then displayed accurately by the display.

As analogue TV disappears completely in 2012 in the UK it will be then! and is already in Whitehaven!.

However, I'm not aware of any colour decoding problems on any sets at all, it's been trivial for decades - not since the early non-PAL PAL decoders that Sony used in their very early sets (to avoid paying Telefunken their licence fee).

Quote:

Anyway rather than carry on further myself, as I'm certainly no expert on this subject, pehaps I could hand you over to more capable hands and refer you to this excellent post.

I'd certainly be interested to see one side by side with a good LCD TV.

[stvn758]

My 46inch Samsung LCD just arrived. They looked so small in Comet - It's like the Tardis, put one in your mobile home bedroom and my God..

IT IS HUGE!!

Some seriously bad viewing so far with Sky via scart, think that will lessen once my eyes adjust, they just did a preview of 'Shameless' on CH4 and that picture looked great so I'm hopeful things will improve.

Once I get the right cables I am going to get my PC connected and do some full HD gaming. Just watching UFC on Bravo, not too shabby either.

Only problem is some white line scrolling across the screen, I saw this mentioned in a review, not sure if they are interference from the Aeriel that's connected or the power, I will try my surge protected adaptor later.

[Nigel Goodwin]

Make absolutely sure you're watching Sky via RGB - switch between RGB and PAL on the Sky box menu and you should see a HUGE change in picture quality - if you don't you're not connected via RGB. Usually not all SCART's on the set are RGB capable.

I can't stress this enough, you MUST use RGB from a Sky box on an LCD or Plasma, the difference is spectacular!.

[stvn758]

Ordered some HDMI cables, my Panasonic DVD recorder has an output, which is handy. Tried pulling out the aerial but those lines were still there.

Won't be able to rule everything out until it's all set up properly, looks like the atmospheric interference you get on analogue when the weather is hot.

[eddiewood]

Quote:

Originally Posted by stvn758

Ordered some HDMI cables, my Panasonic DVD recorder has an output, which is handy. Tried pulling out the aerial but those lines were still there.

Won't be able to rule everything out until it's all set up properly, looks like the atmospheric interference you get on analogue when the weather is hot.

You may wish to visit http://www.avforums.com/ to see if it a common issue or one just with your TV.

Ed.

[stvn758]

Thanks. I'll have a look.

[eddiewood]

They chose the Sony 46" X3500 over the Samsung 46" F86, but were told by Sony that it was only £1800! WRONG!

There is at least £600 quid difference between a X3500 and an F86, the Sony is a bit better, but £600 better?? That's the cost of a good player, or surround system!

There is a debate about the price mix up in their forum, IMO £600 makes a big difference to the review results. There are going to be a lot of disappointed punters looking for an £1800 46" X3500...

[gomezz]

Quote:

there's a double-page spread review of it, which goes into detail of every aspect of its performance

Does that include the performance on external SD quality, programme source?

[stvn758]

After getting an HDMI lead the vertical banding on my Samsung 46in has gone - must of been interference from somewhere else.

I think reviewers get carried away with the detail and scare the average buyer - I was worried about blacks being grey, screen lag and the like but I caught the back end of Once Upon A time In The West and can tell you it was utterly breathtaking, I was giggling with joy at the sight of it.

At £1300 mine is probably at the cheaper end of the full HD models, can only imagine what a few more quid would get you.

[eddiewood]

Quote:

Originally Posted by gomezz

Does that include the performance on external SD quality, programme source?

In the current version of the mag they say that SD has excellent images worthy of any screen. Clean and crisp with balanced colour palette.

Hope that helps.