I suspect that the auto delete functionality wasn't included in the 9200 specification because the hard disk capacity was much greater than the Tivio. Most of the users here have never experienced auto delete so don't see the need. I think it would be a useful addition to the functionality but I very much doubt that it will ever happen for the 9200.

Maybe, can you quote a white paper that you are referring to, or discussion paper on the subject?
I still claim that whatever rule book, especially if historic this appears to break, that should not be followed blindly, a PVR is a consumer AV applicance, the user doesn’t want to worry about GB’s and spinning HD’s and clock rates etc. per sae, but rather will it record my tv stuff!

I’d have no program with this 3rd option, as Scheme 2 is a subset. I still think in general it is not as easy as you make out to trigger a sensible alert, for example when scheduling a series link, should it trigger the alert only if the next episode will hit full HD, or check 2nd episode too, or 3rd? Or should it be conditional on the upcoming week of programs it will record for this series link (E.g. if daily show).
Wouldn’t be much good imo, if just 1 episode. Another example, given before, was what happens if a program is extended _after_ scheduling. Should it alert when it finds out, which might be surprise user - I can see how some people might prefer this, but personally I’d prefer it not to, I expect to run the disk permanently full at all times.



You can’t have your cake and eat it You have limited storage, something has to give. You have to choose default.
And for me it should _not_ give preference (by default) to programs that are weeks, perhaps months old over spanking new programs.


Yes, I think that is the main reason people don’t see it as a ‘big deal’, because they are used to and happy with concept of looking at space and deleting their programs themselves.
I don’t know why it isn’t an option on the humax, I’m not sure it’s HD size related, it didn’t stop the other manufactures that I listed, including the big guy (Sky+) from implementing.
Size is important, but it’s what you do with that really counts However big it is, if you don’t manage your space it will fill up, I estimated mine will fill up in 5-6 weeks from regular programs, probably less with irregular programs added into mix. Perhaps I schedule more than most, I’m certainly incentivised to record as much as I like, because I don’t have to worry about managing, so lets assume those who are used to managing their storage don’t record things willy-nilly like I do, and if left unchecked would run out of space in 12 weeks instead.
The issues are the same, if you’re happy to manage it’s a non-issue, if you want convenience of it being managed for you, then size is not really the issue.

As an example of my uses, I scheduled all my usual stuff when setting up, as I’said that equates to ~16hrs a week, over the weekend, in addition I set it to record a lot of different cbeebies stuff, because I wanted to have stuff available on the hummy for my daughter (she is used to library full of unwatched stuff), I also scheduled quite a lot for me and the missus, we’re nowhere near full yet of course (85% free – I got box this Friday) – I have no intention of deleting any of this stuff yet, why would I, we will all watch some but not all of it over time. Someone said earlier in this thread you don’t have to wade, I feel that is exactly what I will have to do at some point in the future, I guess I will get into habit of checking every week or so and making sure e.g. 25% is free (wasteful) – when I do I will probably have no idea of what was watched or not (can I tell??) – I will also have to weed out the stuff I wanted to keep from the stuff I prematurely have to delete to make sure the % free space margin is maintained.
I am used to Scheme2, I previously outlined, where I have pre-determined what were important programs and what aren’t or I mark exception after fact (soon after typically) – then the system deletes at last possible moment, i.e. just before a new scheduled item is about to record. Thereby the disk is always full and no maintenance required.

I bought this machine as an xmas pressie for my mother with the plan to learn it inside out and learn all its caveats. She has never had a PVR and although I pre-sold the idea of _never_ having to worry about disk space, I will probably still give it and have to explain the housekeeping concept (Because otherwise the machine is good IMO).
She’s quite technophobic, so it worries me that she’ll be able to handle this properly. I will not be surprised at all, if around March say, she says, oh nothing recorded , arrrgg!! ( I will have to monitor her usage )

So all you have to do is tell her that after she has watched a recorded program, if she doesn't want to keep it then delete it.

Yes I might tell her to do that as a general rule, she's not used to recording becoming unavailabel after watching them, but at the very least it will get her used to concept of deleting stuff - she can start being more discretionary as she gets used to it hopefully.
As I said, I think I will still give it to her and I think she will get used to it, it is a big jump in functionality over a VCR of course.

For my own use (and part of the evaluation of whatever I got for mum was to decide if I wanted it), I'm undecided still.
I think I'd really miss this functionality.
I want to be able to record a lot without ever having to think about disk space and I want the record to manage my disk space according to criteria I set.
I think Toppy with Media Manager TAP provides this, so I think I will end up buying one of those, or at least evaluating it - it will be good to compare with my experience with the Humax which I will have until xmas now

Great, so you wouldn't enable auto-delete if it was an option, whereas others would. What's your issuse?

I wouldn't enable it either. I would rather have control over what gets deleted and when and not when the machine decides.

I think there's some concensus that would be useful option. So Gonzo and BBinBucks could turn off / leave off and others could use if they wanted.

Gonzo, BBinBucks - I'm still surprised you wouldn't want to use if existed to be honest (honestly, it's not my intention to start an argument or anything. ) ..

Given you both manage your diskspace and never fills up, then it's really a non-issue, but just imagine for arguments sake you left it unmanaged for an extended period of time, or for example you'd set it record an unexpectedly v. long series broadcast that aired in a short time, e.g. wimbledon or something... in these specific scenarios, do you really want it to miss the match, film, latest episode etc of your shows in preference to deleting shows that are probably likely to be ~2 months old ?

Sorry if you categorically answered that one before, I'm just surprised that anyone "in this specific case" would choose very old, over new.
And, like I said you guys in reality don't sound like you'd ever hit, but I'm still curious ...

There are a few other options there too; for example, the UK AutoScheduler TAP can have auto-delete on a per-folder basis, so for The West Wing, I can have it set to keep the last 25 episodes, while for other folders I can have recordings kept for a number of days, or the X largest files, or X smallest.

I just cannot see what the benefit is of having recordings being deleted just because that are so many days/weeks old.
Ive got a few things on mine that have been there for well over a year that my wife wants to watch, but never gets round to watching.
So she would not be too pleased if she decided to watch them and they were no longer available.
I find it better to go into the playlist(you have to go there to select something to watch anyway) and select all thats been watched and don't want to keep with the green button, then press red to delete as many programs as I wish at one time. That way, im the one in control.

Remember, we are _only_ talking about scenarios where the disk is full or about to be.
There is a choice, delete upcoming (i.e. don't record) or delete according to another priority e.g. oldest.
As I said, if you really did manage your system and liked doing so, this would happen once in a blue moon in your case.


As we've said there's a 'keep me' or similar mechanism on a system that implements auto-delete. So presumably you'd use that IF you had auto delete on.


I now have approximately 30 programs in my list and rising fast (now ~72% free) [I have deleted nothing] - I have watched maybe 25% of these.
It's already (and I expect to have 100's of progs) somewhat tedious (should I do now) to go through and delete some 'least important' stuff AND I don't want to now anyway, it's not full.
I watched The Gadget Show last night and Dragons Den for example, I could delete them, but I might go and have another look at something in one them next week or in a couple of weeks, I don't want to keep them forever though.
I can't tell on the Humax what's been watched and what hasn't either.

There are a few programs that I know I'd never want to watch again and can delete immedietly afterwards, infact the even more convenient way I think this should be done, is that if you reach the end of a program, it asks you at that point (but that is a seperate issue and lazy convinience and probably not to everyone taste)

With a auto-delete system you tend to use the PVR differently, I'll use my own usage pattern as an example and guess at yours (sorry if bad assumptions)

I: I record a lot recklessly without much discretion. I have a lot of series link schedules and if I'm even vaguely interested in something, I hit record. For example I was browsing and saw some old Top Gear's on Dave, so I recorded 3 episodes, I wasn't necessarily going to watch, as it happens I just watched a little at lunch, the rest can slip away I don't care
You: I think you are probably (sorry to prejudge) using more discretion, partly because you know otherwise you're going to have to go round deleting a lot more at some point aferwards?
I: I never press delete, not totally true, but very rarely, even when I know I'm not going to watch again, e.g. Neighbours!, I don't bother to delete, there's v. little point, system will handle it.
You: As you say, you delete after watching quite often, or I guess regularly check (you probably said before when/how often soz)
I: I mark in advance, most of the time, what programs I want to keep (system leaves alone)
You: All your programs are marked keep automatically basically, so you don't need to do this obviously.
I: My disk is permantenly full, so I always have ~80hrs of programming to watch, lots of past episodes of each series link etc.
You: I have to guess again sorry, but I guess you have some but not much, because as you say you tend to delete after watched and what you have tends to be long term 'keeps' (e.g. the wifes films)


Hope that makes sense, to draw a picture of the different usage patterns. Without auto-delete, it's going to be painful I think to continue with the usage pattern I'm used to. With auto-delete feature it's a valueable option
I'm still trying to convince non-believers that this usage has got a lot of merit too!

Your recording stuff just for the sake of recording something even if you don't really want to see it, which the way I see it you will just end up with a hard drive full of clutter just waiting for it to get deleted for you at some random time when the hard drive needs space.
I record what I want to see and once ive seen it, delete it.
If there is anything I want to keep long term then I will archive it to DVD then delete that too.
At the moment my disc space is about 49%.

Or is just being lazy

It's not just for the sake of it.. I gave example..
I record it because, I think I might want to watch, time allowing.
The live TV channels are full of clutter, my box has nothing but things I either know I'm interested in, or contenders. With auto-delete - it's not cluttered - there is zero effort involved - system takes care of it.


Well yes, there's the difference. It I had that policy, If I had non auto-delete approach - I could probably get away with relatively tiny harddisk.


I've tried to explain, even if I was being deligent I would be hard pressed to keep my HD the way I want it. i.e. as full as possible of schedules I am likely to be interested in for me and all other family members.
I won't deny I like convenience, if you call that lazy. I like all my modern conveniences! I want to keep them, I want more!

Why bother? At the end of this discussion are we going to have a vote, with Humax compelled to implement the winning proposal? I think not!

-- from CyberSimian in the UK

I wouldn't dream that Humax would be bothered to read this forum, it's hardly structured - so of course not!

Do Humax listen to customer feedback at all via some lines of communications, an imperitive for any company..

There are clearly others, who like this feature and there are many others if not most (and certainly the worlds largest PVR makers) who implement it. Raising it as a topic and discussing it's merits and disadvantages on a consumer forum like this can only help IMO.
Personally, as I've said I may vote with my wallet and walk elsewhere, HAD I noticed this thread before I bought it, or done my research better in the 1st place, I probably wouldn't have bought the Humax. That said, I repeat, I do like it in most other respects.
With so many PVR's on the market, most implementing this (afaik) - Humax may eventually take notice. Afterall it's one of lesser complex features options to add, programatically.

CyberSimian, why bother replying?

I won't quote all the other discussion, but to summarise my (personal) situation:[LIST][*]I have never come near to filling my 9200 disc, though I have got some unwatched programmes on there which are up to 8 months old.[*]I would not be happy if the Hummy automatically deleted them without asking me.[*]I accept that I had forgotten the 'protect' option, and could earmark them not to be deleted.[*]I'm a bit paranoid about disc space (on PC and PVR): I hate the idea of stuff being on there I don't need, so I like to delete anything I'm never going to watch again asap.[*]However, if your postulated scenario of a full disc arose, then I still think that my 'Scheme 3' is desirable and workable.[*]There is yet another possible addition to the auto-deletion priority: delete in order of number of times viewed; or by genre (protect the kids' stuff)[*]I do understand that a device like the Hummy creates a new paradigm in TV viewing, but I'm still barely out of the VCR mindset.[*]TBH, I think that 160gb is not enough for your way of working. Why not shove a 500gb drive in there instead?[/LIST]

At the end of the day, the PVR is not psychic. It cannot decide which of two programmes recorded one month ago but as yet unwatched, I would rather watch or delete.
I am broadly converted to including auto-delete as an optional facility, but there are still issues around what it should do in certain circumstances.

Maybe one answer would be to spend it's idle time recompressing the contents of the library to MPEG4

He'd just schedule three times as many recordings

[LIST][*]80+ hrs of recording is plenty for me, I had less before and it was still fine.[*]Making the disk 2x, or 3x bigger, or fitting more on it by compression, doesn't solve the problem, just delays it. (although background compression to mpeg4 would be nice feature anyway )[*]I don't expect PVR to be pyschic, but expect it to give me an option not to miss all the newest schedules when HD full.[*]I dont like my recorder missing latest programs of anything, I will be very upset if I ever come back and it's missed a few days worth, I won't be very upset if it deletes lots of Cbeebies and soaps that are not marked 'keep'.[*]Without this feature [on] you/I must keep a 'buffer' of free space free at all times, and increase that buffer if you expect to either be away for longer or have more programs than usual coming up. Or worse, get into habit of deleting as soon as possible.[*]Your scenario 3 is fine - it encompases the feature option.[*]It is noteworthy, IMO that so many other manufactures have implemented this feature, including the biggest 2, namely Tivo and Sky+ (Tivo biggest worldwide)[/LIST]

It's not an option I've ever considered before (and the fact that not many people have put it in their wish lists suggests it shouldn't be a high priority) but I can see that some people would find it useful if it's optional.

I certainly record movies knowing I may never watch them, but keep them for a rainy day. And my hard drive is often close to full, thanks to every episode of toddler show In The Night Garden being on there. However, my personal preference would be for the % of disc use being displayed somewhere prominent (recordings list?) so I don't have to go to HDD control to check it.

The Techotrend (Technosonic/Tevion/Bush/Goodmans) display space as estimated time with the highlighted recording description on the library menu.

Yes I agree that would be very useful if it can be done easily (note that the HD control menu is grayed out whilst a recording is taking place).

I can't believe that this thread is still going on!

If having to take a minute or two a week (or even a day) to clear off unwanted recordings rather than letting the PVR choose what it wants to delete is such a deal-breaker for the OP, then I suggest that he a) gets a slightly firmer grip on reality and b) gets something else that may well not give such good picture quality, may not be as easy to use, or have such an apparently good service for repairs under warranty, and/or be far more expensive.

I understand and completely agree that different things matter more to some people than others, but I suspect that the majority of Humax owners here would probably agree that auto-delete would not be one of their top three enhancements/new features for the Hummy. (e.g. 1] Auto-padding with series link. 2] Re-assigning the 'List' button on the remote to bring up the list of recordings. 3] The option of disabling Mheg in case the advertisers start embedding more troublesome cr&p in their adverts again. 4] EPG saved to disk for faster population when first turned on. 5] The option to turn off those blasted messages that come up whenever a scheduled recording starts. 6] Faster USB transfer. 7] Use of folders to organise recordings etc....)

The Sky+ box downstairs has a 160Gb drive, although only 80Gb of that is available for recordings (). My 21 month old Humax has a 160Gb drive of which IIRC 147Gb-ish is available for recordings, and I think the new 9200s have even bigger drives. I think we once got to about 82% full on the Sky+ box and it took less than 10mins to delete half of that, and the Hummy should be even quicker now that we can select more than one recording at a time with the green button and delete them all in one go.

I guess Douglas Adams had the OP in mind when, talking about labour saving devices, he wrote that just as Dishwashers washed tedious dishes thus saving us the bother of having to wash them ourselves, so video recorders watch tedious TV thus saving us from having to watch it ourselves.

Glad, to see you're keeping it going Tim.


Other PVR's may be inferior in various ways, I think some people think I'm 'having a go' at Humax, I hope others have noticed I've said I like it! I'm not having a go, this is a debate about a feature, which I like, is enabling IMO, and wish it was an humax option.


Again, I don't disagree there is a concensus on other higher priorities. I expect most Humax owners, infact I suspect all who haven't owned a PVR that implements auto-delete properly, haven't even considered it.


I think you must record a lot less than I do, I've had my Hummy for precisely 1 week now, I've just checked and it is 40% full. When I need to make room, I'll have to be selective.

I'm used to being able to pre-mark what I want to keep indefinetely AND tell my pvr to e.g. keep 2 episodes of neighbours, 3 epidoes of layztown, 5 epidoes of gadget show... etc.

As you see my PVR will be full in a little over 1 week from now, so to reproduce my 'preferred' PVR content, I will need to regularly go through and keep N episodes of this, N episodes of that. And, as I've said many times now, to have a reasonably full disk of content which I want AND to prevent what I think is unforgivable (my PVR missing latest schedules), I will have to keep going through my list and doing this reasonably regularly and also keep the disk a lot emptier than I want if I plan to go away.

I will be away soon for 10 days, so I have to calculate current normal usage = 40% in 1 week, ~60% over 10 days.
So I have to delete 60% before I go.


Great fan of D.A., ahead of his time, I'm happy to think he had me in mind - I think that quote is about spot on!

Yes, in a way, I want the PVR to 'watch' my viewing for me, 'cos I haven't got time! - My PVR records far more than I'll generally watch, but there's always a host of things on it that I can delve into whenever I've got time. To put it another way :
I have never sat down infront of the TV and not plenty of my stuff to watch in the PVR library.
My wife has never sat down infront of the TV and not plenty of her stuff to watch in the PVR library.
My child has never sat down infront of the TV and not plenty of her stuff to watch in the PVR library.


I'm sure, as others have commented, that I must be recording a lot of rubbish to fill up my disk so quickly.
I could post my schedule, so you could all make a judgement! - but that's beside the point.
I do record a lot, a lot of Cbeebies series links, quite a lot for myself, quite a lot for my wife. And as I've many times, I don't get to watch them all, there are series (current affair type) I record, because I do want to watch them sometimes, but I usually don't, but it's very nice to have latest 1 or 2 there to watch whenever I might want to
If I could I'd say just keep 1 or 2 (latest) episode in some cases - as I do on my current PVR.

It looks clear to me, that there are Humax owners here, who are resolute in believing it had no merit. Fine, I think I've tried hard enough to show how it is _can_ be useful if you record quite a lot as I do and wish to keep selective material easily.

That's a great thing about PVRs - I rarely now turn on the TV to see what's on. I probably miss new shows I might like due to this, but there's always something I want to watch on the PVR.

My wife and I like the fact that we can control what my daughter watches. If we're in the house we let her watch a Teletubbies in the morning and an In The Night Garden before bed. It means we don't have to worry about her being exposed to ads, or seeing something we don't want her to see.

The downside is she'll think the TV only shows her things she likes - she might not come to the realisation we all had to: that most TV is rubbish.

Auto delete would be a nice feature, everything i record gets backed up to dvd so it keeps my hard drive relatively free but I can undeerstand your need for it Marmite1, so don't take no notice of the spiteful Humax Huggers their not representative of most Humax owners