The end of series 1 of Torchwood and the third to last episode of Doctor Who series 3 were kind of a crossover (as Jack ran from the torchwood hub, right towards the tardis above) and on youtube people have managed to put them together quite seamlessly (see here). Then at the end of Doctor Who series 3 Jack leaves the Doctor to head back to Torchwood. So will they have a crossover and start the new series of Torchwood when Jack leaves the Doctor or will it be like months later? I'd love to see them crossover again.

Also, when he went back, as that year had never happened, would his going back be straight after him leaving?

And if Martha is going to be in Torchwood, but she's from London and Torchwood is in Cardiff, will she go and find Jack or will Jack end up in London? Or neither, and the Doctor will bring her to him after he return to the Doctor at the end of series 4?

It's all very confusing.

Just you wait til Sarah Jane appears again...very confusing there!!!

Torchwood episode 14:

The TARDIS arrives in Cardiff. The Doctor pokes his head outside the door.

Doctor: "F*** me. We're in Wales again. S***."
Donna: "**** **** ** ***** ******* ***** ****, Doctor!"
Jack: "Doctor, good to see you. Fancy a quick one?"
Doctor: OK.

PMSL


Seriously though, I suspect that the reason there will be a "Torchwood Lite" is because there has now been crossover between Dr Who and Torchwood in both directions. RTD's idea of keeping the two separate was good in theory but now it's been blown out of the water.
It can only be a matter of time before the Doctor turns up in Torchwood, even if it's a cameo.
Whether that is a good thing for the supposedly more 'adult' oriented Torchwood I'll leave that for others to decide for themselves....

The Timeline seems to be

Feb 2008 - Jack runs out of Torchwood to grab the TARDIS. (E of Days, Utopia (start of))

Oct 2008 - Events of DW series 3 (Smith and Jones, TLE, 42 (part of), Sound of drums, LotTL (part of).

So it looks like Jack has been missing for over 7 months during which time Saxon had sent the rest of the TW team to the Himalayas. I doubt they were gone for the whole time, he probably just tricked them to going a little before the election.

We'll have to wait till Jan the 16th to see if this is correct.


Personally I would place the Saxon storyline earlier in the year around April/May, the only reason AFAIK it is given as October (in the Chronology at Wikipedia) is that a calendar is seen that is on October. Jack would still be missing for a while but only for a couple of months.

As to Crossovers, Martha going to work/help out at Torchwood is a crossover and JB has said that Jack will be back in DW series 4.

RTD has previously said that the Dr will never appear in Torchwood as Torchwood has a more adult audience. But now that he has decided to edit Torchwood to make it suitable for a younger audience, maybe he might get the Dr to make an appearance.

I doubt it thought as no matter how much Torchwood is edited, I doubt it will be suitable for the many younger fans who watch Dr Who. It's a pity we wont get to see the Dr in the hub but I can see the reasons for not having the crossover.

There's also the problem of that 'Vote Saxon' poster that was seen on a wall in the TW episode 'Captain Jack Harkness'. They couldn't have had the election campaign running for all those months and months before it took place.

I don't think The Doctor will appear in TW. There's no reason why he should just because a cross-over has been made. Technically the cross-over is not in story terms, so the writers don't need to pick up on anything from DW series 3 in TW or vice versa. Martha can turn up at TW, there only needs to be a a few lines to explain how Jack knows her and thats that, back to independant TW stories

I think Marthas visit to Torchwood will happen before her return to Doctor Who in series 4

I suppose you could say that poster was left over from when Saxon initially ran to become an MP which would have been around April 2007 (as seen in the newspaper headline in Love & Monsters) and had just never been taken down.

Of course for it to be seen on a Cardiff wall Saxon must have been running for election in Cardiff.

Jack also mentions that he was planing to vote for Saxon which suggests that the General election was already known about when Jack disapeared which would place it a lot closer to Feb 2008 than Oct 2008.

Could have been running a "personality cult" type of campaign therefore the local MP may just have been part of Saxon's party

now that TW will have a lighter version, suitable for the family I would say there is more of a chance of The Doctor visiting Capt. Jack.
wasn't one of the reason RTD wouldn't let the Doctor appear, becuase it was too adult.
now the shows are being trimmed, The Doctor could appear and any bad language, for example...

Tardis appears

Owen: who the f**k are you
The Doctor: i'm the Doctor, is the Capt about?

that could be trimmed, so that the Doctor just spoke, thus maing it watchable for the family audience.

DW / TW / SJA crossover anybody?

I was sugesting that the Poster may have been left over from Saxons first election where he would have have been a member of one of the established parties rather than having his own party so the poster could only refer to him and not his party.*


Harold Saxon's Pollitical Career
April 2007 - Voted into parliment, either in a General election caused by Harriets Jones' downfall but more likely in a by-election.

December 2007 - Has risen to be Minister for Defence, has been responsible for creating the Archangel network, developing the UNIT Aircraft Carrier Valiant and ordering the Racnoss ship to be shot down.

2008 - Resigns from the party, forms his own party with a number of rebels from all the other parties (who later get gased), forces a General Election and gets voted into Downing Street.

*Of course it's far more likely that (as I did say originally) the 2008 General Election was just weeks or a month or so from the time Jack disapeared rather than the 7 months the Wikipedia timeline gives.

Season 4 finale?

No, because that year that Jack was kidnapped never happened (they reversed time) and so torchwood never went to the Himalayas. So technically, he'd not have been missing more than a day? Because when they went to the end of time, that was in the future and when they were kidnapped in space, that was reversed so that it never happened.

But there again, when they came back from the end of time they might have skipped a few months and gone to the time when Saxon had won the election.

God my head hurts lol.

Timey-whimey!

Right, apparently, end of days (torchwood) takes place in feb next year (2008), as does the first scene of Utopia (at the rift) then they go to the year 3,000,000. But obviously the master nicks the tardis and travels back to earth on election day (Oct 2008, 7 months after Jack left torchwood for the tardis) and on the same day as the events of 42 (Martha's parents are kidnapped at the end of 42, and a few hours later that day, they appear in sound of drums). Then the day after election day (sound of drums) the Doctor and Jack spend a year with the master, which is later reversed in last of the time lords. Then they return to just after the president was killed (love that the doctor didn't reverse that bit) on the day of sound of drums, which is when Jack returns to Cardiff and reveals that he *MAY* be the face of boe. So he apparently went missing for 7 months and 1 day exactly. Unless of course I'm wrong and the Doctor took Jack back to the day he went missing before returning to the day of sound of drums (unlikely).

I wonder how Jack's going to explain that disappearance lol.

So, the events of torchwood series 2 will start sometime in Oct 08 (either the day Jack returns, sound of drums day or a few weeks later to avoid having to explain it hopefully the first so we get a crossover again) and will end some time in December or Jan 08.

This all means that the first 2 eps of torchwood series 1 took place either right after Rose left the doctor or just before the Runaway bride episode.

The events of Martha's around the world campaign during last of the time lords would probably have taken place (if they hadn't been reversed) during late series 4.

Now my head really does hurt.

P.S. - If that wikipedia chronolgical thing is correct (which is where I worked this out from) then the doctor dances and captain jack harkness took place in the exact same month, in the same year during the same war and also if it is correct it means that more than 1 doctor would have been on the same ship on the same day in 1912 (Titanic) as I'm sure that's been mentioned a few times before.

No You are wrong.

Time Reversed only to the point the Rift opened. Everything that happened before that still happened.

So

Saxon still sent Torchwood to the Himalyas
Saxon was still elected Prime Minister
Saxon still killed the US President.

When did Saxon send them? Surely it wasn't long before sound of drums, 42 and L.O.T.T (which all featured the same day at some point) surely.

Saxon informs Jack that they are gone during the phone conversation in Sound of Drums.

We don't know exactly when he sent them* they may have been gone for weeks or months or maybe just hours at that point.

But whichever it would still have happened as Time did not reverse that far back.

Personally I think it may even have been before the Archangel network became fully operational as the Torchwood computers (alien in design ) may have detected that the Archangel network was not exactly what it appeared to be.

*Sent is probably the wrong word as he would not be in a position to order them but he probably provided them with false clues to Jacks whereabouts.

They could have a Brief TW/DW Crossover.

If, as is rumoured on this board that



What's stopping an Cameo from Toshi, Owen and Gwen as they could:

Well I guess you could say that anytime Jack (or Sarah) returns to the main show is techically a crossover.

I've just got this feeling that there will be quite a significant cross over from the Sarah Jane Adventures though .

It's the only way I can think of that Rose returning a) doesn not undermine or contradict Doomsday and b) add something new to the story rather than be a complete rehash of the 'love story' arch of series 1 and 2 (and 3 ). Plus it explains why RTD seems to want a big companion reunion this series.

Personally, I wouldn’t mind Captain Jack reappearing on Doctor Who, as is speculated for the forth season, but beyond that, I don’t particularly want either show cross pollinating. Jack is a rather interchangeable character; he works in either show, but for the purposes of Doctor Who he fit’s the bill. There’s enough established background to the character now for him to crop up again in the future, and with Torchwood going there isn’t really too much call for him to distract away from Doctor Who when he does appear on the show.

I can see a point to Martha crossing over to Torchwood, too. If RTD does indeed intend to water down Torchwood for pre-watershed screenings in time for the second series’ broadcast, then Martha’s arc on the show will act as a nice lead in to her eventual return to the Tardis. I’m sure of course we’ll get enough on screen reacquainting with the Doctor, but at least with a three episode run on Torchwood, it’ll allow for something of a catch up with her character, giving us answers to the questions that might not have the time to be addressed upon her eventual return to the Doctor and freeing up a lot of screen time for more exciting developments.

However, I wouldn’t want to see the Torchwood team itself cross over. I’m not a fan of the show to be honest, I think it’s pretty standard sci-fi, and with perhaps the exception of Gwen (and Jack) I think the rest of the team is rather lacking in substance. I’m sure that Doctor Who could get by with a guest cast rather than bring in the Torchwood team to fill out roles in an episode that could go to anyone.

Whilst it’s good to see sci-fi and fairly big budget shows get such good treatment by the BBC, I worry that they could get too caught up in this ever expanding universe they’re creating. Doctor Who should be about the Doctor, his companions and their adventures. Whilst the odd cross reference would be nice; I wouldn’t want it to get to a point where the shows become dependant on the other to roll along. Doctor Who as it’s own show should remain the top priority. There’s always the spin off media to cater for material that doesn’t make it to the final cut of the show itself. I don’t want to see DW and Torchwood get too caught up in one another.

I'm not on about a massive crossover, I too would dislike a big crossover, I mean a small one.

Like maybe the Doctor could open the void (and thus get Rose back) and Torchwood could show the Torchwood team dealing with what gets through the void, not knowing that their from it until it becomes clear / is revealed to Jack and then him running off to help the Doctor his end.