It changes every week. One week Gethin was not even on all week and last week was all about Alesha.

Only if you assume all publicity is good publicity. Thought last week was all about gorgeous Gethin whereas Alesha was how she needed to improve to maintain momentum etc. I didn't think ITT did Alesha's camp any favours tbh.

CaptainSensible, proving the worth of your name... Excellent point, I particularly liked the point about Emma and Zoe's ballroom marks carrying over to their latin.


I wasn't on the forums during series 3/4, but I remember comments being made by friends about Zoe trying to get back public support after her affair and also that as the biggest name on the show, Emma probably thought she was sure to win. Both may have been very popular, but will still get some bashing...

It does include so many things, and that's why I struggle with the concept of someone "deserving" to win. That said, I think Darren Gough is, of all the winners, the one which fits most into 1 category, with only a little overspill into the other 2...

The leaderboard is what we should be going on, but someone can be in the right place on the leaderboard, but if their score included a ten, it will get criticism. Kelly's AS, John's salsa... The leaderboard has been largely right, but nevertheless I wish they'd ease off on the 10s, and bring back the lower numbers. Can you see the kind of scores meted out to Quentin or Fiona being doled out now? Even if deserved?


Well, Vincent and Flavia are world Show Argentine Tango champions, which is a little different from 'normal' AT... What we have, is something between the two, with it being more like 'normal' AT, and some show-style lifts.


Agree with all this post, in particular the parts in bold. The audiences largely don't pick up on improvements in technique. As for their partnership... at the risk of sounding sappy, it makes me happy. I look forward to every dance they do, I love their interviews, their VTs - two genuinely lovely people who really get on. How can you not love it!

I`d agree with this.

After weeks of the judges raving over her, now we are being informed about the footwork errors etc etc.,

It's been a rather jarring volte-face. Truth be told, she has had footwork errors before - tell us about them all along, instead of this sudden change. It also does the judges no favours - if her feet are that bad, why have they been doling out 10s like they were going out of fashion?

I don't think that the Zoe / Emma effect is relevant in the case of Alesha. Before seasons 3 and 4 started, I was inclined towards supporting Zoe and Emma respectively. However, as the weeks progressed, despite their both being competent dancers, I was repelled by their personalities.

Zoe, I felt, was too desperate to win. Her ambition was a huge turn-off. She seemed more interested in winning than in dancing. As the season progressed, I become more and more convinced that she was doing the show to raise her profile / resurrect her career. It seems the rest of the public agreed with me.

As for Emma, I was a big fan when the series started, but gradually turned against her.. She was so incredibly media-savvy that she never said anything interesting. She always had the perfectly appropriate reaction to questions and seemed too rehearsed. I never felt that we got to know her, and that, I feel, is a crucial component when identifying the person you want to win.

Alesha is a lovely dancer (feet issues notwithstanding) but I've been irked by some clear over-marking (especially on her Latin, where she seems less committed). However, the girl is charming and bubbly and exhibits real vulnerability at times. This is very endearing. I cannot find any commonality between her situation and that of Zoe/Emma.

She does not appear to be alienating the audience on a personal level and this is why I think if she gets the right choreography for the final, she will bring the audience along with her and have a good shot at the trophy.

Insightful comment. For me, this is where SCD has stepped up a gear. Maybe I do the general public a dis service, but most are unaware of the technicalities of a particular dance, they go by what they see and feel. Of all the celebrities Alesha has shown us her love of dance, how she has grown to love ballroom, and the frisson of excitement between her and Matthew. Great Stuff.

I'm a bit by that.

I watched last night's ITT twice (I'd had to record it) and didn't spot anything that made it look ridiculously biased towards Gethin.

In any case, the praise for him still hasn't reached the level it did for Alesha.

...

Anyway, the judges' comments on Alesha were interesting, re this thread's question. They talked about weaknesses in Alesha's performances, suggested she might be lacking confidence ... they're not only avoiding any gushing praise, they have her on a journey!

Or at least a possibility of one.

The commonality is that Alesha's the favourite to win, that she's been getting the sort of gushing praise that annoyed some people or made them think she was the judges' favourite, and that she's been getting 10s for imperfect dances. You even mention being "irked by some clear over-marking" for Alesha yourself.

Zoe's 10s were a big issue. I see that some people have made the point that 10 needn't mean perfect and can just be because the dance was enough better than the ones that got 9s; and I agree. But people made that point re Zoe's 10s too. That didn't stop others from thinking they were undeserved.

I realise that some people have other issues with Zoe or Emma, and since that may keep coming up, I'll say something about it (not all re your post in particular).

A lot of it looks like a combination of assumptions and double standards. It's an assumption that Alesha isn't "doing the show to raise her profile / resurrect her career", for example, or that Zoe was. Then, some people's ambition seems to be more acceptable than others. Many more people seem to have a problem with women being ambitious or competitive than they do with men, for instance.

And Alesha seems to have "perfectly appropriate reaction to questions" -- perhaps even more so than Emma, since her reactions are raising fewer suspicions. Ironically, the accusation of media-savviness is most often made when someone's getting it wrong. If they were really so savvy, they'd have been getting it right!

re the rest of the public agreeing with your view of Zoe, I don't know what the evidence is supposed to be. The voting results don't show that. That someone is less popular doesn't tell us anything about the reasons; and perhaps Alesha will turn out to be less popular too.

absolutely agree with this - the only comment they made before two weeks ago was Arlene in her salsa, why have they gushed like Niagara for 10 weeks and now suddenly are saying 'ooh but your footwork's a bit sloppy'

it makes it look like she's gone backwards, when actually there were mistakes before that were totally ignored!!

I think its because we are now at the semi final stage so they expect better.
A 10 in round 2 is different to a 10 in the semi final.

I think that you make some very good points here about double standards. Yes, they are all doing the show to benefit their careers and women are judged more harshly than men. On another forum Kelly was seen as 'fake' whereas Alesha was seen as natural and genuine. It could be, as you say the person who is truly media savvy will be so good as to avoid such accusations. They are all subject to the way we pick up clues and construct their personalities. I didn't have a problem with Emma but I don't think she was ever as popular as Alesha has been. My perception is that Emma, Zoe and Denise Lewis stayed in so long as the judges scores protected them. Although it looks as though the same might have happened to Alesha had it not been for the judges' new powers, I don't think it's quite the same.

A 10 shouldnt been given in round 2, it lessens the impact of a 10 in later rounds imo.

I guess I think basically - ...the more high profile you are the more folk will either love or hate you at the outset. People will also question and interrogate your motives for being on the show much more vociferously.

(None of the SCD celebs take part just for fun? I mean if all they wanted to do was to learn to dance... they could just take lessons....it's must always be a mixture of pure and impure thoughts surely It's only those we "dislike" that we really question)

I probably can't discuss Jill objectively - she and darren are my fav SCD couple. But I think there was no backlash or teachers pet syndrome because..

1. The celebs weren't quite as much tabloid fodder then.

2. The marks back in series 2 were more on the money. I remember CRH saying Jill's Rumba was "pedestrian" and she was given quite bad comments for her Tango in the semis.

3. Jill and Denise were in a 2 horse race. Both swapped leads over the series. There was a real competition going from the start and both (while having the occassional off dance) started off good but became great!

(Oh and even in the holy grail of SCD perfection that was series 2 - oh yes it was, I'll brook no arguements - there were still shock exits suprises... Denise in the bottom two, Aled's departure, Julian in the final....)

All of which is just my opinion of course

10s aren't there for impact, they're for near-perfection. If a dance in week two was flawless, what would you score it?

Having said that, the vast majority of tens this year have been unwarranted, in my opinion.

Very true, but in my opinion for the judges to suddenly start attacking what had previously been the person they had scored highly must seem odd - i.e. is she having an off day or are the judges? A friend who watches the show and not ITT was quite surprised that they had "dropped Alesha like a hot potato" and though hadn't previously thought that Alesha was teacher's pet, did remark on the judges having a new favourite. The criticism for her to work on is no bad thing, but it should have been there for the beginning, as the perception now is that they are changing their minds on her.

I disagree, they should maintain standards throughout

Bruno and Len especially need to go back and watch old series to see how they used to score the routines

It's not only footwork either. On ITT yesterday, they were saying something was lacking in the performance, when she did Latin dances, and were thinking it might be a lack of confidence.

Maybe a 10 has to be different now, because the earlier 10s have left them nowhere else to go; but it shouldn't be.

I think they (producers, presenters, judges) are very aware that favourites may have trouble attracting votes. That point's been made explicitly again and again on ITT, and applied to Alesha.

I also think that after the three 10s for her Cha Cha Cha, they realised that they'd let things peak too soon, and that they needed to pull back a bit from giving her more and more 10s, hence the line that they now expected perfection from her.

Then think of Len's comment on ITT yesterday that he normally looks for things that are right in the dances but he's now looking for what's wrong in Alesha's because she's so good.

They're sending the message that Alesha's a great dancer and the best in SCD but in a way that may get fewer backs up and also give them a way to get a peak into the final (and perhaps give Alesha a bit of a journey as well).

The main thing we don't know, imo, is whether they're doing it consciously and deliberately or not.

Leads to a whole new discussion then

If someone can come out and score a 10 for near-perfection in just two weeks, what are they doing in SCD . One thing is clear they still wouldn`t stand a chance of winning against someone on a `journey`.

As to your second point, yes far too many tens this year . The one dance I think that comes near to perfection and maybe deserved 10s was K & Bs AS <apart from the 3rd lift of course>!

I so agree with you - it creates more drama when we and the contestants have to wait and really fight for a 10. Also if high marks are given out at the outset the judges cannot use the marking system to effectively demonstrate improvement in the good dancers. In series 2 - nobody expected to get a 10, getting a 9 was a major achievement...I think both Jill and Denise really benefited from that approach.

They`re giving mixed messages, to the public and especially to Alesha.

Too late to bring the `journey` story in for her. If they had made a point of criticising and marking her down for her footwork from the very begining instead of dishing out 9s and 10s to her like candy it may have been a different story for her.

They did something similar with Emma, praised her to the hilt despite obvious flaws in her dancing.

I agree. It helps the dancers see their own improvement, rewards their efforts, and gives them something to aim for.

I think they're trying to put a little of that in now, at least with Alesha, but are somewhat constrained (aka "boxed in", "painted into a corner") by what they did earlier.

Exactly. Jills jive for example would have seen at least 3 10s on the judges scoreboard in this series.

Too late Veri They`ve damaged her chances already imo.

completely - I think her waltz deserved its tens but I was gobsmacked at 39 for the cha cha

whatever, they've screwed her, you'd think they'd have more awareness about what their scoring does to contestants after five years but I guess they are more stupid than they look