I've had my Humax 9200T/S (with firmware 0.15) for a few weeks now from new and it's always had minor lines going down the screen.

These are particularly annoying on low bitrate channels like ITV2 but can be seen on most programs over all channels. It causes the sides of people's bodies to be unnecessarily jaggy. Sometimes I can barely see them (i.e - X-Factor on Saturday nights looks virtually perfect) but other times it's much more obvious. Actually lines isn't the best word to use but it's all I can think of, it's not like it has obvious black lines of anything obviously faulty.

I asked over at AV Forums and a member suggested it could be crosstalk from the RF lead and the analogue tuner in my TV. I can confirm it is not this as I don't have the RF lead plugged in.

Interestingly I switched the Humax to Composite and despite it looking hideous the lines and jagged edges did go away. Now whether this is because the image is now so bad it's masking the lines/jaggies I cannot say. It does seem to elude to the problem being RGB related.

I tried a different scart cable and it was exactly the same. It says on the cable "Cambridge Audio" and "750ohm double screened". I think it was 750 ohm, something like that. It has a silver end with gold plated connection. My current cable also has a silver end with gold plated connection, it looks as professional looking and is as thick,

It's worth mentioning otherwise the picture is exceptional (for Freeview) and still much better than my much more expensive Pioneer DVR-540HX Hard Disk/DVD Recorder. I've put the lines down to a filter in the Humax 9200T to account for low bitrates. On the whole it works well but the lines are still annoying. I've never seen them before on an Freeview Receiver, of any type.

Does anyone else's Humax 9200T or Humax 9200T/S/B have this problem/situation? I'm not sure if it's a problem but it is a annoying.

Thanks

Have you concidered the possibility of interference from the power supply of another device due to proximity? Try moving the Humax away from everything else to test, you've convered pretty much everything else.

I've read your thread on AV Forums, instead of faffing around, take a picture of what the problem is, so we can help...

Thanks GTG I'll try that. I'm not sure how it will help though it's not like I can move the Humax long term. That Cambridge Audio Scart cable I mentioned is 1.5m/2m so I can at least move it fairly far away.

Funnily enough I have been playing around with taking photos. It's not easy when TV images move and one minute you could see it then adverts come and you can't. It's also minor at times and thus is hard to capture when taking a photo of it.

I reckon I've managed to take some and will upload them later.

Thanks.

Interestingly I tried the Humax 9200 in both of my Scart connections on my TV in S-Video mode and despite it being black and white (I guess my TV's Scarts don't support S-Video) the lines have gone and it's not a Composite feed I'm getting as it looks better, obviously except for being black and white.

I'll be back later after I've tried it with my Dad's Widescreen CRT TV and small LCD TV. I'll also upload photos but in the mean time it definitely sounds like an RGB related issue.

I would also think about swapping it at some point because of this problem. It could be that there is something wrong with the unit you have.

I have had not so much as lines but a slight picture running through the picture when viewed on the Humax.

I discovered it was the picture from the station on the TV (not the one being viewed from the Humax).

I solved this by changing a setting on the TV. I think this setting was the output on scart 1 which was set to TV - that is it was sending the TV's picture to scart 1 (to allow recording from the TV to a video) which also had the Humax connected to it. I changed this to something else and fixed it.

Interestingly I've just plugged my Humax into my Pioneer 540 HDD/DVDR and the lines are gone.

I'm not sure what this means exactly but when played back through my Recorder the image now looks identical to the Freeview image the Pioneer produces. The crucial point here is the Recorder already produces a different Freeview quality to the Humax. Gavtech over in the DVD Recorder subforum has put this down to DVD Recorders transcoding the signal into a DVD compatible MPEG2 stream.

The knock on effect is it has got rid of the lines. This is no solution though as A: Obviously I cannot play the Humax through the Recorder all the time and B: The Humax otherwise (when sent directly to the TV) looks much better to my Pioneer Recorder. It no longer looks any different.

I'd think if the lines were inherently being sent out of the Humax even the transcoding by the Pioneer wouldn't get rid of the lines completely, leading me to think it's some type of conflict Weird!

I took my Humax 9200 over to my Dad's house earlier and it looked fine on his 28" Widescreen CRT. I'd forgotten how bad quality his CRT TV is.

I then plugged it into his brand new 19" Widescreen LCD TV in the kitchen and again it looked fine. This being an LCD TV makes it a good comparison next to my 32" LCD TV (even though it's much smaller). It looked very good on his LCD TV.

It's definitely something related to a conflict with my Samsung 32" LCD TV and RGB being outputted of the Humax 9200. When I reduce the Samsung's Sharpness to the minimum (it ranges from 0 to 100) it "seems" to help but the problem is still definitely there.

I've never seen this problem before, it worked fine on my old Thomson DHD 4000 PVR using the same Scart lead.

Here are some pictures, they're deliberately very large so you can see them smaller and at full size:

My Scart cable: http://img463.imageshack.us/img463/3076/r0011633wz2.jpg
Notice the lines going down the guys nose: http://img145.imageshack.us/img145/999/r0011626no2.jpg
Notice the lines going down their faces, particularly the ladies nose: http://img57.imageshack.us/img57/9012/r0011630nl9.jpg
Notice the lines going down the lovely Michelle Marsh's right arm: http://img463.imageshack.us/img463/2852/r0011632ck3.jpg

You will also see jaggies at the bottom of the ladies face in the second picture and jaggies all over the third one. These are a result of the lines.


I tried this earlier (moving it very far away from my TV) and it made no difference. It doesn't look like a conflict issue with other hardware but more a conflict with my TV specifically.


I'm now not sure if it's actually faulty. I may have to raise a case with Humax still just to see if I can get to the bottom of it.

I'm getting confused. How is your Humax TV SCART configured? CVBS (composite), s-video or RGB?

And how is your TV input configured?

CVBS and RGB can be detected by the TV: the blanking signal is used to select between them. However, for s-video, both ends need to be told to go into this mode. If you don't do this, then you get a black and white picture.

Bad RGB is actually hard to achieve. The easiest way is to not actually be using RGB and to be driving the TV via composite. The expert eye can easily tell the difference but it is possible to fool yourself. There is one sure-fire way to check and that's to either disconnect one of the RGB signals or to short it to ground. I usually open the SCART plug and short red to ground with a screwdriver. If the picture goes a nasty mixture of G and B, then the TV is being driven in RGB mode. If not, then you need to use a meter to see if the source is putting at least 1.5V on the blanking signal.

While you're inside the scart plug, check that the RGB signals and composite are running in coax with seperate grounds. If not, then junk the lead. I don't care if it cost a lot and is gold plated, it's junk! Go to CPC and order some of their flat SCART leads made by Prosignal. They cost less than a fiver each and are very good. Or use the plugs from the lead you're junking to make your own SCART lead. If it's only going to be uni-directional, then there aren't that many connections to make. (Of course, I haven't seen your SCART lead and it could be OK!)

Other interesting tests -
1) What is your picture like if you use the phono CVBS on the Humax rather than SCART?
2) Did you also say that your UHF gives a bad picture? Have you checked that you don't have a UHF channel clash? You need to lookup your transmitter (and nearby ones!) and see what channels they use. Then use the taboo calculator to find a free channel. At times this is hard!

Ian

OK - I'm using a Samsung 37" LE37R87 LCD on RGB from the Humax and have not seen anything like that on any profile...

That happens because the SCART lead has composite wires in both directions, so the TV is sending to the Humax as the Humax also send to the TV (though the Humax ignores the signal coming in)

If you get this ghosting, it's because your SCART cable doesn't have the essential screening around the composite wires. One fix is to remove the pin in the plug at the TV end, but it's better just to get a decent cable.

Ian

Thanks. I wonder why I am then? It only happens with the Humax not other PVRs or my Pioneer HDD/DVDR.


Sorry. My TV accepts whatever it is given, there is no configuration.

At the Humax 9200 end if I select Composite the lines go away but it looks awful (the degraded picture "maybe" hiding the lines I've no idea). In S-Video it looks better than Composite so I'm confident it's an S-Video signal but it's black and white, again no lines.

I presume it's B&W as my TV's scart don't support S-Video. The S-Video was only a test I don't care if it's in B&W as I don't want to watch it this way. When it's outputting RGB (which is how it's always configured except when I've tested it) the lines appear.

They're only there from the Humax when outputted in RGB directly to my TV. When connected to my Pioneer HDD/DVDR the lines go away (via it's Line in port). I describe this in more detail above.

I'm definitely watched an RGB picture it looks massively improved (except for the lines) over Composite.

Thanks so far.

The original scart spec. didn't include S-video.
It was added by putting the Luminence signal (BW brightness) on the pin originally used for composite video, and the Chroma (colour information) on the Red pin of the RGB group.
Hence monochrome displayed when a non-S scart is used.
BTW I don't think it's normal for the TV to autodetect between S and CV, and RGB uses a signal from the source to switch. So it may be there's a menu option on the TV to choose.
And if there is a dedicated S-input (four-pin mini-DIN) an adapter kit with scart one end is typically only about £5 (QD).

Thanks for that.

Any idea why I'm getting these lines? Photos are included above.

What model of Samsung do you have? If it's a full hd panel the software will be different from that on my 1366 x 768 panel.

Scart cables? Yours look impressive but are we sure we have individually screen conductors? You could be seeing the effect of crosstalk from the composite video output that your TV may be sending?


Maybe points to cabling? Your TV output cannot affect the Humax scart with the DVDR in the way?

I'm using cables like these http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Flat-Gold-Scar...QQcmdZViewItem with no problems. Alternatively you might want to cut pin 19 at the TV end of your scart....

An LE32R41BX. It's a 32" HD Ready LCD TV model from 2005.


I'd guess so it does say "75 ohm double screened", whatever 75 ohm means. How would I check?

Come to think of it I didn't try "my" scart on my "Dad's" TV.


How do you mean? I am connecting the DVDR via Component and the problem occurs when the DVDR is even in Standby.


Thanks. They look the same as mine though, don't you think?


Are they numbered? How do I know if I'm cutting pin 1 or pin 19?

I have an old scart cable I could try it with. I would be reluctant to do it with my proper scart cables in case I damaged them. I "may" need it's composite pin one day too, just in case.

Thanks again.

bradavon have you tried connecting your Hummy to another TV to see if the same happens on that?

Yes I have thanks for the suggestion, please see post 9. I've tried it on a 28" Widescreen CRT and 19" Widescreen LCD. Both fine!

I have v minor diagonal lines across the picture, almost invisible, but can see on my 82" screen, connected by rgb to component input on projector (RGB>Comp converter) although I did notice it worse on the pace twin I had before, same as you new aerial, v high quality leads...

Thanks.

I wonder if it's something to do with the way RGB works.

I've e-mailed Humax Tech Support with all the details. I'll see what they suggest before cutting pins on my Scart cable.

This could be part of the problem as much of the enhancement of these sets has been the software required to resample the signal and generate sufficient pixels to match the native mode of the panel by interpolation. Freeview is broadcast at 720 x 576, the panel is 1366 x 768 so some guess work is required..

http://dtt.me.uk/


Good plan - you can't tell if the scart cable has individually screened conductors unless you open up the cable, but I find flat cables usually are....

Can you output RGB from the DVDR over the same cable to test?


refer to this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scart

Well, that's certainly what it should say. There should be six bits of 75-ohm coax in a SCART cable. Two for composite (one in and one out), three for RGB and one for fast-blank (but this is a DC signal in close to 100% of cases)


Well, it's worth trying this for elimination. But it's also worth me saying at this point that I haven't actually seen anything like those lines of yours before!

Ian

Hi

It's nothing to do with the SCART cables. There is no way a cable can introduce a regular pattern such as that into an analogue signal that is travelling in the wire. Don't waste your money on expensive new SCART cables.

The problem is certainly to do with the TV and the way it is using the input. To me it looks like you are zooming into the picture.

Things to check.

1) Make sure the Humax is set to output a 16:9 picture.
2) Make sure your TV is Auto mode for the signal input, i.e. it's not fixed or set to zoom in. You might be outputting a letter boxed picture that the TV is then zooming into which is why a say to check this.
3) Try to use S-Video, make sure the Humax is set to output S-Video in the menu on the Humax, the TV should accept that automatically, if it is black and white, check the options, you may need to alter manually to tell the TV it is getting S-Video, sometimes you have to use a different SCART socket.

RGB input, while considered the best type of output relates to old fashioned TVs with tubes, and RGB to a modern LCD TV isn't much use to it. S-Video may getter treatment inside the TV.

This isn't a SCART lead quality issue, but must be something related to your setup.

Regards

Phil

Could it be something as simple as signal strength? To my mind, the picture has some of the hallmarks of interference.

bradavon: You say it works fine with other TVs, presumably in other locations? Have you tried exactly the same setup (cables, SCARTS, aerial downlead, etc) with another TV? What does the 9200 (and TV if it has the facility) say about signal quality? Does the problem occur equally with all channels?

Also, I notice that two of the pictures are paused recordings. What about the first? Again, is the problem equally bad on live pass-through and playback?

Apologies if you've already answered these. I've read the dialogue, but may have missed it.