The cable is the easiest thing to eliminate, bearing in mind that OPs Humax works fine at another location.

It is quite possible for a cable to introduce patterning like this, have a read here:

http://www.stevelarkins.freeuk.com/s...terference.htm

Hi


It's not interference. The signal is digital, it can't get interference, it can break up, pixelate, or plain not work, but you can't interference like that, it is physically not possible. You could spend £1000 on the biggest and best aerial you can find, or use a coat hanger, providing they both work, the picture quality you see is exactly the same. It's not like analogue, so hopefully this bit of advice will save some people some cash.

Regards

Phil

Hi


Not like the pictures I have seen. It's digital artefacts due to some process with the picture. Interference is analogue and would not manifest itself like that, it isn't cross talk you can see, it's digital artefacts, and as the cables are analogue signals, it can not be caused by the cable itself.

Regards

Phil

However - between the Humax and the TV the signal is analogue, and vulnerable to interference....

Quite possibly, the closest I can find is here:

http://www.doc.ic.ac.uk/~nd/surprise...ab/report.html

There are reports of firmware updates for the R41 series to fix image processing problems, so assuming the cable checks out OK maybe OP should give Samsung a call...

Hi


Yes it is analogue but the artefacts are not. Put it this way, what type of interference manifests itself as self adapting colour blocks of equal size to make a perfect mosaic on top of the picture?

Everything about the interference patterns points to digital processing somewhere.

The link you gave doesn't help too much as that relates to the artefacts you get with MPEG compression, these are similar but would not all be the exact same size over the picture, and modern TV's have no problems decompressing MPEG2, with the MPEG artefacts added during compression, not when they are displayed on the TV.

The poster should check their Humax is set to 16:9 mode, I think perhaps this problem is caused by it set to letterbox mode, which means it is downsized in the Humax then on the TV it is upsized again causing these artefacts.

Interference is always random in nature, it never can affect the picture in the way we have seen in the photographs.

Regards

Phil

I was thinking more along the lines of the TV pumping out a composite video signal on pin 19 that is the same picture as that being received, therefore any crosstalk would be the same signal delayed, and could result in constructive/destructive interference that could well yield such patterning.

Perhaps we are focusing on different areas of the image, there are digital artifacts present which I also see on my samsung, and have therefore ignored.

Sorry I've not replied sooner guys I'm not getting subscription e-mails to say someone has replied


Yes, but it worked using the same cable on my old Thomson DHD 4000 PVR.

I don't think it's scart related as such but more an RGB conflict with my TV AND the Humax 9200.


Thanks. What does that mean though?

Really? I'm not.


It is.


Thanks but nope. It's set to 16:9 at the Humax end and at the TV end with what Samsung calls "Auto" for 16:9 anamorphic content.

The framing looks spot on. It would be obvious if it was letterbox on a Widescreen TV.


I've tried this and the lines go away helping with my RGB theory. It is black and white but it doesn't matter for the test. I tried both scart sockets on my TV and it appears neither are S-Video. It's RGB or Composite on one and just Composite on the other. Rubbish, hey!

I'd have to buy a Scart to S-Video lead to test that further.


Interesting I always find RGB the best of the lot (that Scart supports).


I'm thinking the same but when I have a direct feed to the TV with no RF cable getting in the way, what?

It was perfectly fine using my old PVR using the same cable. It's even a problem with my DVDR in standby.

It does to me too but it's the exact same aerial cable I plugged into my old PVR and current DVDR. You'd imagine they'd show some kind of problems.


Correct.


No but it would be tricky to get another TV to test it on.


The TV is analogue only and has no signal meter. The Humax at 3:30am says "Strength 60%", "Quality 100%". Those seem pretty good to me.


The first is a live recording. I mostly used saved recordings as it's hard to take a photo before it changes but the problem is identical on saved or live stuff. It makes no difference.

Sometimes it's less obvious but looking close it's always there, other times it's really obvious.


No worries. I want the problem fixed so am happy to repeat myself. You guys are doing "me" the favour.


I'd probably live with it or change to another PVR than do that. The TV is 2.5 years old so out of warranty and has worked perfectly with everything else I've plugged into it.

It's the Humax that is the black sheep.

Thanks a lot for all the replies so far guys. I've replied to everyone in the past 3 posts.

Sorry I've not replied sooner guys I'm not getting subscription e-mails to say someone has replied.

To clarify:

1. It's definitely all setup to 16:9 in the TV and Humax, using the correct Samsung "Auto" mode.
2. The same cable worked great on my old PVR
3. I've only ever seen this problem on the Humax nothing else

I will try pin 19 though as it's the only thing I haven't tried yet.

Keep the ideas coming

A follow up:

I plugged the scart cable in that came with the Humax 9200 and the picture got considerably worse (not just lines but grain all over the picture). To check this wasn't the Humax 9200 at fault I plugged the same cable into my DVD Player and still awful. Clearly Humax supply cables that are effectively faulty!

I then took another cheap scart cable I have (that came with an ancient OnDigital box) and that gave me a proper RGB image but MY GOD the lines were worse, clearly the decent cables I have are doing something.

I took this cable and cut pin 19 (I've double checked this) and not only didn't it make any difference I can still select Composite from the Humax 9200 menu. I thought I'd now get a black picture as pin 19 is cut but nope I get a Composite picture.

I'm definitely glad I didn't cut the pin on my proper scart cable, the cheap cable I have doesn't fit together 100% anymore.

Any others ideas?

p.s - The only spare TV I have access to has no Scart socket making it pointless to test on anyway.

As neither of my TV's scart sockets accept S-Video I've just bought a cheap £3 Scart to S-Video + 2 RCA Stereo Phonos cable from eBay.

If it makes any difference/looks better I'll invest in a proper cable.

If it does look better I'll continue to use it but my next step maybe to send it back to Humax for repair, something is still up with my Humax PVR regardless!

The RGB signals are analogue, as is the composite signal, but I agree that the picture problem doesn't really look like interference in the cable.

Ian

Cutting pin-19 at the TV end just prevents a composite signal FROM the TV causing interference in the cable. You should still be able to use composite, RGB or s-video modes. If you connect the cable backwards, then you will get audio but no picture in any mode.

Ian

It would appear you are not the only one...

http://www.digitalspy.co.uk/forums/s...d.php?t=352904 - post #8

Hi


Mmm, could be misleading you, the artefacts may be in the colour signal, not the luminance though?

When you connect the Pioneer DVD recorder to the same SCART socket and output RGB, does this have the same problem? We need to work out if it is a problem with the TV accepting RGB or not.

If you connect the Pioneer through component cables, and then connect the Humax to the Pioneer's other SCART, and have the Humax outputting RGB, with the recorder on, the Pioneer is doing a RGB to S-Video conversation, then it converts it to component to feed into the TV. If the problems are gone in that case then a RGB to S-Video should hopefully sort it out as the problem seems to be the RGB conversation inside the TV.



I was referring to the transmitted signal, as there was suggestion it was a reception problem, i.e. poor signal strength.

Regards

Phil

Thanks. I'll reply over in that thread too. I've also sent him a PM.


Oh right thanks. Correct as instructed I plugged the scart with the snipped pin into the TV's scart socket.


Good point. I now have a Scart to S-Video/Phono cable on order so will soon know for sure.


Nope. It also worked fine with on my Thomson DHD 4000 PVR and my ancient Pioneer OnDigital box (literally OnDigital).

It's only a problem with the Humax 9200.


Really? Why do you say it's converting it to S-Video? How do you know this?

I have tried this and the lines do indeed go away (more info):

http://www.digitalspy.co.uk/forums/s...44&postcount=8

But I always took that to mean the processing a Hard Disk/DVD Recorder does to a Freeview signal. The picture is much better over RGB directly fed to my TV (except for the lines) than either fed through my Pioneer or the Pioneer itself through Component to the TV.

Hi

First of all the Pioneer DVD recorder:

The latest Pioneer recorders (for cheapness probably) only work with S-Video/composite inputs. The Freeview tuner in the recorder is connected to the main board using S-Video, yep that's right S-Video. The RGB SCART inputs are converted to S-Video (by a chip costing a few pence) before joining the main board. This isn't totally uncommon, especially with equipment made for the world is then having to be localised to Europe/UK that use these funny RGB signals.

So the Humax signal into the Pioneer, assuming the Pioneer is switched on goes:

Humax RGB out -> Pioneer RGB In -> Pioneer converts to S-Video and the signal enters the main board....

On the output side of the Pioneer recorder that S-Video is then converted to Composite, RGB and Component to feed the various outputs. Now you know why the picture doesn't look as good when it's gone through all that

Now all this acts like a high-pass filter so some detail will be lost, plus the RGB signal is completely regenerated by the Pioneer recorder. I would suspect that the RGB output on the Humax may contain too much detail or bandwidth, or perhaps the voltage is slightly high, and that is causing problems for your TV which is a bit over sensitive to the RGB input.

If you turn the Pioneer off, so the SCARTS are connected through the Pioneer, the RGB signal is then directly transferred to the TV without that processing, do the problems come back?

How do I know, I've seen the circuit diagrams in the service manual.

Regards

Phil

Which models? I have a 540 which I bought in Summer 2006.


I've not actually tried "RGB loop through" but I'd imagine with it in standby it would either be converted to Composite or look the same as it does when sent directly to my TV. As you say no processing is done when in standby.


Does this also apply for Aerial in to internal Freeview Tuner then outputted via Component? Because that looks identical to the Humax in then out again as previously described.


I reckon you're right. Any way around this/to fix it?


I'll try it now, thanks.

Phil: If the Pioneer Recorders converts RGB into S-Video then why is there an option in the menus to choose Composite, S-Video or RGB from the Input Scart? To appease people who would moan if RGB was missing?

I've tried what you suggested and it seems oddly the Pioneer 540 doesn't offer scart loop-through period, in Composite or RGB. With the Pioneer in Standby and the Humax 9200 plugged into it's input scart and a Scart plugged into the Pioneer's output scart I get nothing at all.

Sort of. Most Freeview STBs only have Composite or RGB output at all, via scart.
Therefore the choice of composite or RGB out to Composite or S-video input would be: composite.
RGB out to RGB in (then converted to S-video for recording) is at least a step up from that.
It is effectively the same as adding a S-video output to the STB.

True but you'd think it "could" be RGB in and then RGB out.

In answer to your very first question/thread title:
Yes someone has posted a very similar issue with a Grundig 32" LCD and Humax 9200, on Hummy.Org.

Thanks Nvingo.

That thread describes a double picture. I'm not getting that. I don't have two images on top of each other (even the same one) but lines instead. It does elude to other having issues with their Humax 9200 though.

The cure in post 7 doesn't help me as I don't have the RF lead plugged into my (analogue only) TV and all analogue channels aren't tuned into anything (all are snow). I've never bothered tuning any of them in as I no longer use Analogue at all.

This is my Main Scart cable:

http://www.lektropacks.com/view_prod...hp?product=239

My other scart cable I mentioned previously is from Cambridge Audio (picture on page 1). I have tested both Scart cables with my Humax 9200 and neither get rid of the lines. I've e-mailed Lektropacks to confirm the scart I have is "individually screened".

The Cambridge Audio Scart lead is 2m hence why I prefer to use the shorter Lektropacks one. I don't think this will help as I've already tried cutting Pin 19 on a cheap Scart cable, which didn't fix it.