what about the Cybermen? The Master?

I quite like the modifications made to the Daleks in the new show, but a major redesign...no!

Redesign the Dalek?

Do not blaspheme!!!

keep the design as it is but perhaps the Daleks can design a new shell for say a stealth Dalek that has to move quickly and perhaps not as immediately visible....

Yes, once. And not since.

As I said, the Cybermen and the Master are the only ones which have come close. And I can name 3 singles featuring Daleks off the top of my head. I'm not sure I can name one featuring either Cybermen or the Master. They've certainly not had the same impact as the Daleks.

Nothing has.


It's only been on three years.

Besides, what about Cassandra? And the Robot Santas? Both recurring villains created during this current run.


Well, name one villain from Tom Baker's reign that's had the same kind of impact. You can add in Patrick Troughton, Peter Davison, Colin Baker and Sylvester McCoy's eras combined, if you like.

Troughton: The Yeti

Pertwee: The Sea Devils/Silurians/Omega

Baker: Sutekh/Zygons/Morbius/Voc Robots/The Black Guardian

Davison: The Mara/Tereleptils

Baker: Sil

McCoy: The Kandyman ( I am joking!)

granted some of the above never got a return outing despite their popularity with the viewers and fans. thankfully some of them didn't as well.

I did point out Trollface that some of the villains/characters created by the new series have made their mark and have been superbly written as well as visualised.

But "plunger and a whisk" is the criticism that always used to be heard pe-2005 (along with "they can't climb stairs!") which is why they set out to specifically address each one of those design features that people thought were silly and completely subvert expectations by making those features extremely menacing. So the plunger stayed, but was shown to be able to crush skulls and burn people's brains out.

I don't see any need to change it or the 'whisk' now as they've been extremely successful without any alterations, and why would them being taller make any difference? As others have said, it's good writing and direction that make the Daleks work, not changing their appearance.

Those might have all made a bit of an impact at the time, but nothing like the ongoing popularity of the Daleks. Ask Mr.-average-Joe-Public-casual-viewer to name a Dr. Who alien and the near-universal answer will be "Daleks". 99% of non-fans would never have heard of any of the ones on that list.

Ironically the only one that has had any sort of long-lasting impact is the Kandyman, through sheer notoriety!

Which means that they don't fit your criterion for being recurring villains. Not that that matters because none of them fit your criterion for having "the same kind of impact as the Daleks the first time around."

Of the ones that you mention (and I find it interesting to note that you missed the Sontarans from Pertwee's era), the Yeti are probably the biggest and most well-known. Yet I've never heard of "Yetimania" sweeping the UK. Dalekmania, however, is a well-documented phenomenon.

You're asking for something to have the same impact as that. The fact is that nothing, other than Daleks, has. Ever.

sure none had the same kind of impact as the Daleks but the public still remember them. I did point out that from the new series kids seemed to be in rapture going around asking "are you my mummy" from The Empty Child as well as exterminate. I am not diminishing the impact they've had but we have yet to see one step out and take the crown which is still firmly belongs to the Daleks.

I don't think they would. Ask the average person on the street who Sil is, and I'll bet you three fish to one goat that they wouldn't have a clue. If they did, they'd probably say Natasha Henstridge.

Yes, and the point is that we haven't seen any monster do that in the last 45 years. Therefore criticising the new programme which has only been on for 3 years for not having done so seems a little churlish.

as i pointed out in my original post Verity Lambert managed it in one season with the Daleks.

no one has really managed it since..why? sure we've had close runners with the Cybermen, Ice Warriors, Yeti etc but nothing from the old or new has ever eclipsed them or matched their popularity.

Actually, your original post said that it was "odd" that the new series hadn't managed to create something that was as popular as the Daleks. And the fact is that it's not odd, it's actually completely the norm, as nobody has it managed since.


If I knew a recipe for sure-fire success then I'd be a rich man.

I may be wrong, but wasn't the possible redesign of the Daleks the reason why they very nearly didn't reappear in the new series? The producers wanted to change them and the estate of Terry Nation said 'no' (even though Nation hadn't designed them in the first place). Then there was a compromise and all was sweetness and light.

I'm not sure if I read this somewhere, or I'm just adding 2 + 2 and making 5. But if I am right, it's highly unlikely they'd redesign them now.

You don't mess with an icon and the Daleks are iconic. When they were turned into nothing more than generic robots by Terry Nation when he introduced Davros, that's when they lost their power, which is why I hope that Davros is gone for good.

Really? us old timers remember it very well, Yetimania was massive. Four young Yetis from Liverpool, Zog, Blotch, Urch and Burt. Cant you remember the images them coming down the aeroplane steps to thousands of screaming kids wearing yeti wigs at JFK airport, their several films, A Hard Day Yet, Yet it Be and Yet, their classic albums, Meet The Yetis, Sgt Yeti......

Well, you get the idea, sorry I was bored, agree with your point though



As for redesigning the Daleks, no need to, just a bit of spit and polish every now and again.

odd because they have created some good characters but nothing as caught on in the same way.

a bit of spit,polish and perseverance goes a long way in my book...

As I said:

I think people are taking me to mean something much more. I meant keep their current look, but make them slightly taller and give them non-plunger non-whisk arms. Maybe guns or lazers? lol

The case looks fine, it's just the arms and their height.

I agree with trollface, I don't think it's odd. If anything, it's odd that the Daleks did make such an impact and have continued to enthral viewers (and even non-viewers) ever since.

Maybe it's genius, maybe it's luck, maybe it was just great timing. Probably a combination of them all. Something about the Daleks is different. It won't happen again without another dose of genius/luck/timing.

Yes, Cybermen and the Master have come close, but more so with the fans than the general public. Cybermen have perhaps made the crossover to an extent - and they have possibly been influential in other ways, as people say the Borg were heavily influenced by them for example.

If Family Fortunes asked a hundred people to name a Doctor Who enemy, I would predict...

65 - Daleks
20 - Cybermen
6 - The Master

with others making up the numbers.

Thinking back to my childhood, the only ones I could name off the top of my head, without the reminders I get from threads like this are...

Daleks, Cybermen, Master, Sontarans, Sea Devils, Sil (who I would probably call the Slug creature ) and yes, Bertie Bassett .

And I would call myself a fan.

So I don't think it's fair to criticise the new series for it's failures. They'll keep coming up with new creatures, some will return, and perhaps one day one will capture the zeitgeist and songs will be written...

pmsl. (at the spoiler)

if you read my messages Slug I have actually praised the new series for some of the villains they have created.

what I am asking is why haven't they caught on in the same way as the Daleks? is it because viewers have higher expectations or they just don't get swept away or caught up in things like this any more as they are always looking for the next craze?

I don't think there is any particular reason. I just think the Daleks had a magic combination of factors. And I wouldn't honestly expect any new monster to have that effect, and I don't think anyone would have expected the Daleks to have that effect when they were first created.

If some of the better monsters from the new series are re-used in an effective way, they could start to challenge the likes of the Sontarans and Sea Devils (to use my own examples), and maybe even one day they could eclipse the Cybermen (especially if they don't improve in their next showings). But the Daleks, for better or worse, just have

so what from the new series has come close for you?

I liked the Gelth. I was very disappointed when Army of Ghosts didn't re-introduce them as I expected.

you never know Gatiss might bring them back one day. mine are The Family of Blood or The Weeping Angels.