Hi - thought I just put the not a bashing thread in because I know Matt and Flavia fans are feeling a little bashed these days...

I was just thinking there was lots of talk about why they got a perfect score and it did actually make sense when I thought about it...

- The waltz has been the dance of the series with everybody in that semi final scoring high in it - however, Matt did it when he was much further down the line then the others - he had more weeks of training and therefore it is possible for it to be much much better then Alesha or Gethins (plus, over Alesha he had to lead it...)

Loved all three of the semi finalists - can't wait for final!

Am still pissed they didn't have three in the final - silly not too - they could have had a free week with no vote and just entertainment....if either contestent gets ill or something...its a big risk for the programme!

I disagree that it's because of Matt having more training. His disaster two Saturdays ago would have thrown him off quite a bit. And thanks to ITT training clip, even up till last Tuesday, he was still struggling with his waltz (Flavia even had to use a sword! ).

I think when it comes to the Waltz, all three of them did fantastically well. They all have the element of good music, good choreography and executing the dance with technical mastery. It's a little to do with how they performed on the night (with a little luck), and based only from the performance DURING THE NIGHT I believe that's how Matt got his 10 from Craig...

I actually think he lacked a little bit of facial expression which is why I didn't think it was 40

other than that I couldn't fault it, so 39

sorry...I didn't quite understand what you were trying to say here..?

What I was saying is this: I am sure all the three semi-finalists has perfected their Waltz during training. But sometimes in the performance night you get get a little carried away or just some very slightly shoddy missed toe/heel leads (like Alesha's Waltz, Gethin hunching a little in the beginning of his waltz, Matt's sticking out his tongue during the routine but was not spotted by the judges) etc.. Matt happened to repeat his perfect run (footwork) of the routine on the actual performance and was rewarded accordingly for it. Does that make a little more sense now?

Yes - sorry, I get it!

Yeah - I think your right - but I also still think that having several more weeks dancing training helps.

If you think about it the judges always commenting that some dances are harder then others (although obviously debatable!) and Len said I think the Paso is the hardest of the Latin for the men.

The waltz has been a pretty level playing field - because they've all scored highly in it - and I just think that if you've had more weeks practice then others then your going to get a few more points - and it literally is all that that seperated the dances, a few points.

What I was trying to say (quite badly I know!) is that Matt deserved the 40, although others were saying he was overmarked - because he also had a better chance of getting a higher mark because he had more training.

I'm not suggesting that's unfair at all - everyone had dances at different times in the competition and in pro sports (athletics) you don't have men competiting with women, same in this - you don't usually have in pro dancing an amateur woman competing against pro women (Alesha, versa Flavia and Camilla) or visa versa with the boys.

The Argentine was harder for Alesha - but also perhaps brought it down to a level playing field cos she was better to begin with.

Anyway - a long way of saying it - is I don't think Craig was crazy for giving the 10 - he gave 9s for the others waltzs...and Matt had the chance to be better cos he had weeks over the others (just for that particular dance!)

It did seem unfair that Matts best dance of teh series was up against Gethins not so good dance - however, that could have easily been reversed - and that is how the competition is arranged.

Was proud and impressed with everyone on the night!

I'm not a dancer but as the dance ended i actually thought to myself that i was disapointed with it and that it lacked magic. I was gobsmacked by the scores and not in a good way.

Yes, my other complaint was: Why is the dance so short??? I had the same feeling with Mark and Karen's AT. I thought hey, wait a minute, it's over!

I want more, More, MORE!!!

The only dances that make me want to see more was Mark's AT last year, Alesha's Foxtrot (even despite the 'mistakes') and Matt's Waltz...

I believe if Alesha does her foxtrot again (with the correct choreography it was meant to be) she'll score a perfect 40 as well...

[quote=SCD-Observer;20177029]Yes, my other complaint was: Why is the dance so short??? I had the same feeling with Mark and Karen's AT. I thought hey, wait a minute, it's over!

I want more, More, MORE!!!

The only dance that make me want to see more was Mark's AT last year, Alesha's Foxtrot (even despite the 'mistakes') and Matt's Waltz...

I believe if Alesha does her foxtrot again (with the correct choreography it was meant to be) she'll score a perfect 40 as well...[/QUOTE]


I'd love Alesha to do her foxtrot and paso as they messed up in both and it would be fab to see the 'proper' dance.

The final should be fab!

No bashing from me, cos I have been sulking since last night, but any more of these comments about how wonderful a dance it was and I just might forget myself........

I don't actually think it was the most wonderful dance ever - but technically it must have been perfect - come one, Craig gave him a 10.

I think the waltz is harder to appreciate then other dances which are perhaps more dramatic.

Its luck of the draw...if Matts lower scoring dances had been up against Gethin's salsa or a higher scoring dance he would have gone...its just down to luck - all three finalists were fab!

I posted this in another thread, but I think it'd work here as well:

I've had a second watch of it (as I was advised to by others), and I still don't see it, I'm afraid. It was a very good Waltz, and I wouldn't have been surprised at a score of maybe 38 or there abouts. The footwork was there, there was nothing tangible to fault, per se, but I thought it was somewhat lacking in the chemistry or spark that would make it perfect in my eyes - It didn't pull me in, as Alesha and Gethin had previously and make me watch, it just left me thinking "that was a very nice dance".

However: (i) I don't think the overmarking takes anything away from what was a very, very good dance, and (ii) I don't buy the "it was fixed" thing, I just think the judges saw something in it that I didn't.

Well said on all your posts on this thread. Saturday's SF was awesome, and even though I thought Alesha's QS was worth at least a 41 if Matt's VW was a 40, I thought the 1-2-3 order over the two dances was right.

Whoever went out can consider themselves unlucky as the three of them produced the three best overall performances of the whole series.

What we have in prospect is a final between Alesha's superb perfomance and presentation and Matt's unpredictability and moments of sheer genius. 'Citin! Bring it on!

the ladies upstairs think Matt sticks his bum out when he goes backwards and that his facial expression is always the same

never noticed his bum but I do agree about the face - he doesn't 'perform' as much as the others

Couldn't have put it better! As soon as Alesha and Gethin's waltzes ended, I knew there'd be at least one ten, and deservedly so. I didn't get that feeling with this one.

Last year the judges were almost universally harsh with Carol Smillie and overgenerous with Emma Bunton, so we know their perceptions and expectations colour their judgement and scoring. I think this is what happened here.

Craig and Arlene praised Alesha's QS last night with no "buts" and criticised her AT - but gave both dances exactly the same score. Were they making up for not giving her 10s for the QS? That just tells us they cannot be relied upon to judge objectively and I still maintain the 40 was undeserved and a reward for recovering from last week's meltdown. And I'm usually the first person to say an Alesha dance was an 8 and not a 10, so this is not an anti-Matt tirade.

I think he finds it difficult to 'perform' when he's in hold. When he's out of hold he performs his dances well (see: Salsa) .

2 words. The Comeback.

I've noticed his bum sticks out when he goes backwards as well.... I'm glad someone else has too- he did it last week as well- but I thought that was just because his whole technique had slipped due to the nerves. I'm a bit of a pleb when it comes to dancing, so thought I was just picking up on something that wasn't important.

As for 40 mark, I've stated on previous threads that when Craig gives a 10 I'll know someone deserves it... I can't go back on that, but I have to admit that waltz- although a very good dance- didn't touch me half as much as Alesha and Matt's. Maybe because I'm and A+M fan I didn't 'get' it as much, I'm not sure..... As I said though- if Craig's given a 10- it must have ticked all his boxes (just didn't tick all of mine!). IMO Matt's salsa was a far better dance.

xx

Quickstep is a very difficult dance to score perfectly (except during Christmas Special). If you look carefully, Alesha 'stumbled' a little once in the routine, and she was facing the judges when she made the minor (but visible) mistake so I think Arlene and Craig picked that up...

If there is a 0.5 score I am sure Craig would have given her 9.5 though...

Don't let me start on bums, please! I love Alesha and part of her appeal IS her physical appearance (besides her unmistakable dance talent), and I often noticed her bum 'stick out' in her ballroom. But I guess you can forgive her for doing that for AT because AT is strictly not a ballroom dance and posture is less of an issue. Check it out, her bum 'stuck out' too in the QS at some point... But I like it (since I am a full-blooded straight 33-year-old guy).

Two words: Lead balloon.

This was my thinking, too. I watched it with my mum and we both went, "Hmm, yeah, good dance" and then were when the scores went up. But then, the same thing (or indeed the opposite) has happened before... I do think it's a shame that it's going down as "that overmarked waltz" when it WAS a GOOD dance and that is what should be remembered.

I didn't see the show when it went out on Saturday as I was at the school dance show (some night to pick for it ) so had warned by parents, sister and brother for full reports like me they are dance teachers too.

My brother who is very neutral (but this series was leaning towards Gethin) I rang him for his opinion on the night. He said the waltz of Matt was good but grossly overmarked 9's at a maximum. He said to look at vid and when I did had to agree with him Matts rise and fall was coming from his knee bending and straightening and not from the action of his foot, Sway was virtually non existent - If Craig is to bring up that Alesha missed some closed feet in her Quickstep (have looked at vid a few times and can't see it ) then surely the lack of the most fundemental part of the waltz Rise and Fall should have meant he didnt warrant a 10?

It was a good performance from him, but if a missed closed foot meant Alesha was not given a 10 by Craig then it should have follwed lack of basics in Matt's waltz should have meant at least the same

Matt DA's sway in the Waltz was there, more so than even Matt Dawson's Waltz in last year's final.

Are you sure there is NO rise and fall from the feet? I saw that he perfectly mirrored Flavia's 'rise and fall' from the feet (as well as from the knees), I thought you were a dancer (and I am not)!

I'd love to know what the expert commentary thought of Matt's waltz - that would def be interesting...