When you see someone who isn't as worthy of the title as you are then I don't think it is seen as sour grapes, that's more disbelief than anything else

If there were two people on the same level and one begrudged the other of the win then yes I agree it would be sour grapes but in this case it's nothing of the sort

I don't think people who say Rhydian should have won have sour grapes - not if they are saying it in a reasonable manner, without slagging off Leon. But you have to use the term to all those who deem it necessary to make fun of his voice, his appearance, his family etc. etc. because that's just spiteful.

But someone coming second is not a loser - he/she is a runner-up. Loser is rather a negative term and doesn't fit here. After his intial disappointment, Rhydian is happy with how things have turned out and now thinks it is the best for himself and Leon. He did amazingly well to have got so far with his style of singing. He has gained two important allies in Simon and Louis. Leon has the title and a number 1 single. I think life is great for both right now and there are no sour grapes nor is there a need for any.

Another pedant writes
I totally agree with you and the phrase is being used out of context - as I've said earlier in another thread it would apply if people were saying that the prize - ie the X Factor crown - was not worth winning but what they are actually claiming is that Leon did not win fairly. What they are actually doing is crying foul because their favourite didn't win.

Well I guess it's not being used in it's exact definition but it seems to be the nearest phrase that can be used to describe the denigration of Leon's abilities that is only happening because Rhydian didn't win. So in this case Rhydian's supporters are denigrating Leon rather than the prize.

I imagine that if Rhydian had won there would be lots of posts congratulating Leon for being a fine runner up and that the people disappointed with Rhydian's loss would not have such a skewed vision of Leon's abilities, they might even be praising him.

But everything is dying a natural death. Now that people see that Rhydian is very happy with with the outcome things will settle down - he has signed a record deal with Simon Cowell who has supported him throughout the competition and he has a chance of appearing on stage in an ALW musical, and even if that doesn't come off, other musicals will materialise. Life is good for both - any sour grapes there might have initally been are now well and truly obsolete.

Surely the English language is rich enough in metaphors and similes to come up with something better than that?

And personally my opinion of Leon's abilities is not skewed by his win over Rhydian, I thought he was shite even in bootcamp - I think it is the fans who voted for him who have a skewed opinion - naturally enough after the money they spent on him. Anyway as I said, the X Factor effect will wear off and it will be up to the general record buying public to judge on whether they want to buy his stuff. Leona survived that test - I wonder if Leon will?

I'm glad to see that even Leon's supporters are starting to find his victory laughable.

I think you will find that the denigration of Leon's "abilities" started from the first live show and well before last Saturday.

As I said in a previous post, the accusation I think they are making is about being a sore loser or being sour, "grapes" has nothing to do with it.

No - it means a specific kind of sore loser. That's like saying that you can call hugging, waving as waving can mean greeting.

Yes Yes Yes. If you at least get the insult right we can dispute it.

The "grapes" have to refer to the prize not the "loser" or indeed the winner.

Yes Yes Yes and Yes again. If we carry on like this and get to the point where every word and every metaphor starts to mean any and every bloody thing, that actually means that our language will cease to have any meaning.

Apologies for so many posts but I don't know how to have multiple quotes within one.

If you can come up with a better phrase that means "putting the boot into a rival act because one's preferred choice didn't win" I promise you I'll start using it.

I don't think that Leon's fans expected for one moment that he would win X Factor - and are a little taken aback at what they have done. Now he has been thrust - totally unprepared - into the media spotlight to embark on a career as a performer - something he doesn't appear to have the least talent or aptitude for - with nothing but a pretty face, a sob story and a talent for occasionally sounding not too bad when he sings. And given that he has been given probably the worst song and video in the history of talent competitions I think there will be a lot of people who didn't even watch the show asking whey this guy won ...

I doubt it - More likely they'll be wondering what all the fuss is about Rhydian losing.Leon does an excellent vocal on "When You Believe"

Im dont have 'sour grapes' at all, I hardly even know what that means.
I think Rhydian deserved to win becuase. He is better than Leon, Leon cant sing and he just has no start quality.
Im not bitter about it, I rant about how bad Leon is becuase the thing it he is terrbile!
But I am starting to get over the fact Leon won, and now I find it quite funny someone as bad as him, I say the weakest out of the 12 mannaged to win.

You are entitled to your opinion - but it is just that - it doesn't make it fact.

Rather a lot of people must think Leon can sing and has star quality because he got at least 500,000 more votes than Rhydian last Saturday.

I think Rhydian is a great singer - I just wish some of his more eager fans on this site would accept that a very large number of us think Leon is too!

Whilst I'm a Rhydian fan, I have disliked Leon's style since his first audition, and my bitching about him has nothing to do with the fact that Rhydian won.

If I rant it's because of the excuses being made for Leon. Usually "oh, he just need's singing lessons" - part of being able to win the X-Factor is having an ability to sing decently and consistently without having to be "polished off" in the first place.

Yes, all singers need lessons/training to keep their vocal cords healthy, but in no way should this be advanced as an excuse by Leon fans who justify his win by claiming this in almost every thread.

It's very easy to cry "sour grapes" or "bitter [...] fan" - that's just another excuse for those Leon fans who cannot think up an original argument regarding the fact that his performances have neither been consistent or good.

The point of winning is not that "oh, after eight month's he'll have been taught how to do this" - the point is that the winner should have all the essential star qualities now, or at least just needs refined rather than being taught how to present oneself, how to interact with the media, how to sing...

You're forgetting that 500,000 more votes does not equal 500,000 more people - that's just an opinion and not fact, because we don't know how many times each person voted - that alone undermines your assumption about Leon's popularity.

Indeed! another blow struck for accuracy

Neelia, I salute you, you're absolutely right! It irritates the hell out me, too, when people trot out words and phrases that are totally inappropriate in the context they're using them - my particular bugbears are the use of 'infer' instead of 'imply', and as for the word 'less' - I go apopleptic with rage in supermarkets at the express checkouts, shouting 'five items or fewer! It's FEWER, you illiterate morons!!!!!'..... My poor husband has got really good at that 'she's not with me' thing. Are you a fan of Lynne Truss's books, by any chance? If not, you should read them - I think you'd love them!

'Sore loser' is the correct phrase in this context, if not the correct sentiment.

Pedants of the world unite, is what I say!!!

And of course none of Rhydian's fans multiple voted on Saturday night.........Its a reality TV show not a general election and there was nothing to stop anyone casting as many votes as they like whether for SD, Leon or Rhydian. Dedicated fans are the ones who buy the singles and the albums and attend the concerts.

Perhaps if Rhydian's fans had spent more time voting for him last Saturday rather than posting unpleasant posts about Leon on this forum the gap might have been cut down to less than 500,000 votes!

Aaaaaaargh! Fewer than! It's fewer than!

Since Leon won all we have read on this forum are posts like: I've complained to Ofcom; it's good that he didn't win as he wouldn't be able to record the album he wants; he didn't need to win as the runner-up generally does better; Simon looked gutted that Rhydian didn't win; Rhydian claims publicly that Simon is disappointed he didn't win;....

He and his fans (the sore losers & sour grapes and both)were desperate for a win, that much is obvious since he lost, but he didn't quite reach that goal - he lost, accept this, and start supporting him beyond the XFactor, if that is what you so wish.

Leon won, wish the boy well and move on.