So, (playing devil's advocate here) what if Alesha makes a MASSIVE cock-up on the night? What then?

The same as some of Matts ardent fans if he makes a massive cock-up ? .

I'd still vote for her... As with Matt the other week, one bad night does not a bad dancer make. And one MASSIVE cock-up does not wipe out the fact that Alesha has been my favourite dancer for 11 weeks.

xx

Even if she does screw up on the night, i think its legit to vote for your "favourite" in the final based on their performances throughout the series. I actually think thats why Matt got a lot of votes after his meltdown - because people felt that it was such a shame after he had danced so well previously, & wanted him to get another chance. Whether people agree with that way of voting is another matter.
Although i wanted an Alesha/Gethin final, i enjoyed many of Matts dances so what i REALLy want is to be able to enjoy great dances & to see both couples do themselves justice on the night. I want Alesha to win as i've supported her from the start, but if Matt wins, i shall say fair play, well done, because some of his dances have been fantastic. I wish both couples the very best & viva SCD 2008.

The final COULD be about the best dancer on the night.

However that's not how the competition has evolved thus far.

I have latterly come to appreciate Alesha but I still think ( based on the voting patterns to date) that she would be absolutely guaranteed a win if she took a tumble, had flu, had a breakdown or a bereavement.

I still say that Matt should have been in the dance-off in melt-down week and should have exited then. He is by no means a bad dancer but to suppose that public votes centre exclusively on one night's performance is naive - nay, utterly misguided.

I wish Alesha no harm but you betcha that, should she be unfortunate enough to suffer any of the above, she'd garner even more votes!

Been thinking about this, and actually I think it's fair enough that different people have different reasons for voting. After all - if it were purely a dance comp there wouldn't be voting lines at all (I don't hold with the "it's not a dance comp at all" position either - otherwise why bother with judges or rules or trying to dance well?), and if it were purely about the dancing on the night, then the lines wouldn't be open yet.

Some people will vote for their favourite regardless... some people will vote for the best dancer on the night... some people will vote for their favourite pro dancer... some will vote with their hormones... some people on personality, costume, what song they dance to, whether they happen to like that routine, whether the judges are mean...

It's the nature of the game and always has been - it is hardly a surprise. We have two potentially fantastic dancers in the final, both of whom have done wonderful dances and are capable of producing really, really good routines. I make no secret that I really hope Alesha will win, but I think either are worthy winners.

It isn't a perfect system for finding "the objectively best dancer with no bias from judges or public", but did we really think it was??

[quote=ESPIONdansant;20246600]The final COULD be about the best dancer on the night.

However that's not how the competition has evolved thus far.

I have latterly come to appreciate Alesha but I still think ( based on the voting patterns to date) that she would be absolutely guaranteed a win if she took a tumble, had flu, had a breakdown or a bereavement.

I still say that Matt should have been in the dance-off in melt-down week and should have exited then. He is by no means a bad dancer but to suppose that public votes centre exclusively on one night's performance is naive - nay, utterly misguided.

I wish Alesha no harm but you betcha that, should she be unfortunate enough to suffer any of the above, she'd garner even more votes![/QUOTE]

I don't think she needs it, she will probably win, because she is truly good. Anyway, who was to say that Matt would have gone out against Leticia in the quarter final anyway. Maybe he would have pulled off the dance of his life, and then the judges would have had to exit Leticia. We will never know how it would have gone. If both couples had danced equally well, and the judges would have had to make a choice based on potential, they probably would have gone for Matt as well.

I think all of this is presumption and based on one meltdown. In the previous week (against Kenny), Leticia was clearly not very good in the dance off, because of her cold. Some people thought that Kenny's foxtrot was actually better, so you could say she was given a lifeline in the previous week based on her potential.

Overall I agree with sarah-flute, people will always vote for different reasons, but this year we managed to have the two most talented people in the final. However, like the OP I wish people were less convinced that Matt will not remember his dances (based on one meltdown in a difficult week) and that Alesha has basically won already (and I mean that in a positive way towards her, because it will undermine her talent and hard work this week).

Totally agree on both counts, LDM!

[quote=lach doch mal;20247302]
Alesha is not immune to the sympathy vote being played for by others on her behalf. ITT and the VTs have made a point of mentioning her bad year (love rat husband) and the fact that her Mum was too poor to pay for dancing lessons when she was a little girl.

In fairness, all she has said is that she has had a bad year - no explanation.

I know she has mentioned being unable to dance when younger, but I think it's ITT who has run with it (someone made a brilliant post earlier this week about how everyone is being portrayed one dimensionally). Similar to how this entire week seems to be about Matt's comeback. Unfair to him, as he has, meltdown aside, been really good; unfair to Alesha as... well, I think sympathy votes are unfair whatever the motivation.

Sarah-flute is right. Reasons for voting are many and various.

My dislike of Matt has nothing to do with his dancing. It is based on his spineless performance when he forgot his steps and his attitude to Gethin (dating from weeks back). Those little barbed comments...He hasn't endeared himself to me and I also find him over-familiar with Flavia (certainly at first when she appeared a little uncomfortable - flattered but not altogether receptive).

I haven't warmed to any of them this year. I do relish seeing effort and improvement and thought Gethin might have been promising in that regard but last week was not his best so he may have disappointed this week also had he been selected.

All in all, it hasn't been a classic series for me.

What if they BOTH 'cock-up???? Now that would be interesting

I knew you would. Love the mutual support between Matt and Alesha fans.

In answer to someone else, I don't think they overplayed the sympathy vote for Alesha. I only found out about her husband and Javine on the forums. She literally just said that she had a bad year (fair enough). The same applies for Matt who just finished EE.

By now, we all know how ITT and SCD works, nothing knew there.

Off topic -

Back to your usual programming but I had to say that....

So it's not really about the dancing, but personality. But SCD is a dancing competition and this thread is about the best dancer., so maybe we need to wait until the final after all.

No worries.

Lots of people have already decided for whom they are voting and won't be swayed by anything as trivial as the actual performances!!! How absurd!

If the actual dances were the key to success the 'phone lines wouldn't open until the dances had been performed.

Dancing talent has very little impact on the public voting. Just the way it is.

I think it should be about who is best on the night - and nothing else. Otherwise why have a final at all? It's a knockout contest isn't it. There's no league table in SCD - but of course there is in people's minds.

I may cast one vote for the best dancer on the night. If nobody wows me- no vote.

Depends on what it is. If she messes up one song really badly (and the chances of that are minute, considering that even if she forgets something she'll make it up without freezing like Matt did), she has four other dances to prove herself on. If, by some incredibly unlikely, million to one chance catastrophe she makes a massive cock up in all of them, I'll still vote for her, but Matt will deserve the win.

i think Aleasha or Matt will both be the first to admit that the winners should be the best dancers on the night, and rightly so its a final of a competition.

The winner may or may not be the best dancer on the night. Whoever wins there will be some people who don't think they were the best dancer. There are still people saying that Colin, not Darren, should have won series 3. I voted for Darren because I liked his transformation from cricketer to dancer, his personality and his Show dance. As Sarah-flute said, there are a number of factors involved. As long as there is voting in the week it can't just be down to who is the best dancer on the night even if we agreed as to who that was. Even if the phone lines weren't opened until Saturday evening the votes cast would be for different reasons and nobody has the right to tell anyone else how they should vote.

Think these two points are worth restating.

Who is "the best" is always going to be at least a little subjective.

And if someone is going to vote for their favourite loads of times during the week, what difference will it really make if the phonelines only open on the Saturday night? Will it really stop that person voting for their favourite regardless? People have every right to vote for whoever they want according to whatever criteria they want... that's what you get for putting the vote open to the public at all. The dancing does mean something and is important - that's why we have judges! - and a lot of people do vote on that. But others don't. It's the nature of the game, and sometimes we may not like the results but it's hardly shocking, it's been this way for what, 12 weeks? And 4 series before that...

(I may be dead wrong, but didn't the phonelines open just on the Saturdays the first couple of weeks? In which case, Kate being appalling made zero difference to an on-the-night vote...)

Reasons for voting are many and various.

What amuses and sometimes grates is the fans who claim dance greatness for their hero/ heroine and exclaim mightily after a spectacular performance and portray themselves as interested merely in the technical aspects of pure dance whilst voting madly for their chosen ones irrespective (and even in advance) of what occurs on show-night!

Just a little self-deceiving!

Be honest, voters. Celeb-chasers and idol-worshippers on the one hand. Dance fans on the other. Don't think you can be both. Not easily...

that HAS to be the quote of the forum - brilliant mental imgaes now of foumites building temples and graven images of their idols