Watching thr reruns on BBc3 and just wondering why doesnt he just go back in time and warn or rescue some timelords? do you think in the new series we will find out more about what happened?

Becuase 1) It was the doctor that killed them, and 2) They have been wiped form timelines. They don't exist to go back to.

ah aw thanks for helping me out.
as you can tell im a newbie to the show the joys of bbc3

The other possibility is that Doctor is unable to go back into Timelord past and change things because of the Grandfather paradox.

Have you seen the episode "Father's Day" (Series 1) ? Its a fantastic episode and gives you an idea what would happen if the Doctor did go back in time to try rescue his people.

Cos there'd be no New Who if he did that.

As I posted in another thread

Except for Blinovitch's Limitation Effect which prevents this - mentioned a few times in the classic series. Timelords were not supposed to cross their own timelines - only in exceptional circumstances. Hence the Doctor could never have existed at the same time as his current incarnation and was only allowed to cross his own timeline in exceptional circumstances. In the Three Doctors it was allowed by the Timelords, in the Five Doctors it was done by a Timelord and in the Two Doctors it was a result of the Time Experiments being undertaken on the Space Station)

In Mawdryn Undead because the Brigadier met himself and that resulted in him destroying Mawdryn and his followers.

In Fathers Day the Timelords were no longer around to stop it happening and The Doctor took Rose to the day her father died and of course that caused the problem with the time parasites.

However the full effect of Blinovitch's Limitation Effect has never been explained by either Terence Dicks who conceived the idea and subsequent writers.

Can someone tell how he killed them pls.

I must of missed an ep of it

Thanxs

We don't know for certain.

He tells the Dalek in the episode "Dalek" that he destroyed the Dalek Fleet and the Time Lords burned with them.

The Beast (The Impossible Planet) calls him "Killer of his own kind".

It could be that he used the Eye of Harmony (Black hole at the centre of Gallifrey) to cause the destrucion but as I said no one knows.

No, you didn't miss it. It's never been explained. All that's been said is that, The Doctor did the dirty deed, and that the Timelords "all burned". That they and supposedly the Daleks were totally wiped out of space and time.

The obvious flaws in that are:
a). If the timelords were erased from space and time then how can the Doctor or the Master (In any form) exist?
b). Same arguement goes for the Emperor Dalek who also survived until Rose wiped him out.

You cannae go back to help the Timelords 'cause they aren't there to go back to!

Please post the line of dialogue that says the Time Lords were totally wiped from Time and Space.

AFAIK there is not one.

I'll get back to you if I find it.... Trouble is there's three series to go back over to find it.

(Either that or I imagined it!)

Thank you for explaing that for me.

So technically you're right that it doesn't state definitively the Time Lords were 'wiped' from time and space. But the dialogue does say the Daleks vanished, and wherever they (and implicitly the Time Lords) went, they were destroyed there. Which is pretty close to what Hot Dogg says - and how I view it too.

Waters are muddied slightly later...


So the Emperor's ship fell through time, although it was out of time and space. I guess the war must have caused a crack or something to fall through.


Oh, and shall we just ignore the oxymoron that is
If anyone round here still wants to bash RTD, there's a great big sledgehammer he's provided for you...

Jack's line just means that the Daleks at a particular point in history ( possibly before the 51st Century but maybe not) formed their fleet together (taking every Dalek in the Universe) and headed for Gallifrey.

There they were destroyed (mostly) and were not seen again till the year 200100.

They were not wiped from Time and Space and memory because Jack remembers them leaving, even Roderick (possibly a 195, 000 years after the time they left) remembers them.

So yes the Daleks were gone from the Universe (as far as anyone knew) for up to 195,000 years (give or take) but they still existed at the point before they left just as the Time Lords still exist at a point before Gallifrey was destroyed.

There was a scene cut from the script of The Parting of the Ways in which Jack asks the Doctor how he could've survived. The Doctor says "I don't know, I shouldn't have, it was luck or a curse". Okay, not an explanation, but it is an acknowledgement that his survival shouldn't have happened.

Is Gallifrey outside of time and space then? Or are you speculating about the precise meaning of the line just as much as I am?


Who said anything about memory? It's an interesting philosophical question (after a few pints maybe). If they existed, then ceased to exist (in terms of our reality of time and space), would that automatically erase them from the memories of those who had experienced them? Yes, those are effectively false memories now because the events didn't actually happen but the fact that the memories exist doesn't mean that a time traveller can go back and re-visit the events in the memory.

Memories can then be confused with imagination. "I thought that was just a legend." Just because someone imagines an event, that doesn't mean the event happened. Memories of the Daleks and the Time Lords remain. Some knowledge remains (hence Jabe can identify the species). But the evidence is not there, the events are not there, and events that aren't there can't be changed.

Unless/until RTD or his successor decides to tell us what really happened.

The Doctor cannot cross his own timeline. Seeing as he was one of the main fighters in the war then he can't go back and stop it, no matter how much he wants to.
It has never been fully explained and i so hope that it will be covered at some point. We have bits and pieces of the story but not the full thing. I would love a story on it. For that reason, i'm not going to say that they were wiped from time and space - although i'm sure they must have done, otherwise there would still be timelords running around the Universe who that part of their story hasn't happened yet.

The Doctor and the Time Lords remember the War Chief, and he was wiped from all of time and space. It's long been established in the series that that's possible.

Thanks Slug, that was one of the references that I was trying to remember. "Vanished out of time and space"

I think there were a few other references as well.