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Martha Jones :: Why Did She Flop? |
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#26 |
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Why did she start off with a whole season and then only get guest appearances? It's clear the actress who played her wasn't very good and there were rumours that the BBC execs didn't really rate the character highly.
So why did she not do as well as Billie? What counted against her? Was it the writers not writing an interesting character? Was it the unrequited love thing? Was it just the fact she was unconvincing? Why did Martha flop? Martha Jones didn't flop far from it in fact she proved a very good strong character and as well played by Freema. The main problem in series 3 was RTD (and I believe he has admitted this) foolishy went down the unrequited love angle and could only resolve it by removing Martha from the Doctor. |
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#27 |
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She flopped because the character of Martha Jones was badly devised, there was no charisma between her and David Tennant, but primarly because she cannot act.
She`s the only companion that I couldn't have cared less if she'd met a sticky and untimely end. In fact, in some episodes, I found myself kind of hoping that she'd be a goner, and that the woodworm would get her. ![]()
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#28 |
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Join Date: Mar 2003
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Quote:
The main problem in series 3 was RTD (and I believe he has admitted this) foolishy went down the unrequited love angle and could only resolve it by removing Martha from the Doctor.
I didn't like it but that was the point, I wasn't suppose to like it. I didn't like series 2 much because nothing was confronted or resolved. That their |
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#29 |
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Posts: n/a
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She wasn't badly devised, she is very good at acting, she even stood out to me when she was in crossroads with Nancy from Hollyoaks. Quote:
She flopped because the character of Martha Jones was badly devised, there was no charisma between her and David Tennant, but primarly because she cannot act.
She`s the only companion that I couldn't have cared less if she'd met a sticky and untimely end. In fact, in some episodes, I found myself kind of hoping that she'd be a goner, and that the woodworm would get her. ![]() ![]() |
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#30 |
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She wasn't badly devised, she is very good at acting, she even stood out to me when she was in crossroads with Nancy from Hollyoaks.
She was very badly devised. The unrequited love angle was a pile of utter sh*te. You like her, I don't. Best to agree to disagree.
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#31 |
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Join Date: Mar 2003
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The main problem in series 3 was RTD (and I believe he has admitted this) foolishy went down the unrequited love angle and could only resolve it by removing Martha from the Doctor.
And I thought it was, I didn't like it but that was the point, I wasn't suppose to. But as for why I thought the unrequited love thing was a good thing I need to go back to the previous series. The very reason I didn't like series 2 much because nothing was confronted or resolved, that it seemed a bit of a directionless mess. That ok the finale was quite grand and pushed all the right emotional buttons but it totally ignored what the rest of the series had been building up to (ie that the Doctor and Rose's arrogance and insular relationship would be their downfall). Also it never allowed for a confrontation for what was developing between The Doctor and Rose. See I found the groundwork for the unrequited love story was being laid in series 2. That they were having fun and loving the no responsibilities, travelling together element of their relationship but that they were on different levels when it came to other aspects of their relationship. That there were signs that Rose wanted more from the Doctor than he could offer and that these times he rejected and ignored her but because of Billies departure they didn't have time to fully explore that route. However with Martha they continued this and confronted it, that Martha did want that next level of relationship, a mate, something more conventionally human and this the Doctor could never give to anyone (Martha's feelings of second best coming from the belief that this is what Rose got but we know she didn't). This is why I personally think the unrequited love was necessary and why I found series 3 to be a success because it addressed things that were left hanging in series 2 and things that I didn't like especially the one-sided aspect of the Doctor/Rose relationship, and the Doctor's being a bit of a git sometimes. That in series 3 this wasn't shown as a good thing, it was confronted and as such I left series 3 feeling much more satisfied. And it did all hinge on the final scene and Martha's depature. And beyond that I thought the unrequited love thing also brought out the most admirable qualities in Martha, like her selflessness and ability not to let her emotions cloud her when it came to acting (Human Nature/Family Of Blood for example). (Sorry I don't know what I did but I accidently posted a bit of my post earlier and don't know how to delete it) |
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#32 |
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Join Date: Jul 2007
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Martha was good at the start but drifted, and definitely I could have done without the family. To me she simply wasn't anything special. I feel Rose would have done the whole 'year to save the world thing' with more conviction.
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#33 |
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Join Date: Mar 2006
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To quote poster, goonerob, directly:
She didn't. Next! |
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#34 |
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Join Date: Oct 2006
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Martha was good at the start but drifted, and definitely I could have done without the family. To me she simply wasn't anything special. I feel Rose would have done the whole 'year to save the world thing' with more conviction.
I can understand why people prefer Rose to Martha, but tbh Martha clearly beats Rose in the competency stakes (but then again she beats pretty much everyone except Romana, Babs, The Brig and possibly Sarah Jane) |
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#35 |
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I can understand why people prefer Rose to Martha, but tbh Martha clearly beats Rose in the competency stakes (but then again she beats pretty much everyone except Romana, Babs, The Brig and possibly Sarah Jane)
I have noticed that in the two clips for Doctor Who and Torchwood, she's either chained up or held prisoner. In TWO of the shows she's a victim character. All that's missing is her screaming or twisting her ankle on a twig. The writers cannot do anything interesting with her. That's why a character like Donna is needed. Martha was weak. Docile. Easily pushed around. I feel she's back in season four because Russell feels guilty at having cast her then sacking her. He would look very foolish talking up Martha only to have her not do so well. |
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#36 |
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Join Date: Aug 2005
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Freema was more than capable, and the first episode Smith & Jones showed loads of promise, but sadly the unneeded 'love' thing just made her weaker than she should have been. Her best moment is when she tells the Doctor she's 'getting out'.
Hopefully Donna will be much more of the Doctor's mate (not in that way...) rather than fawning after him. |
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#37 |
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How can it be taken any other way when her episodes are slashed?
Just repeating it again and again till everybody is exhausted from bothering discussing it with you ain't gonna make it anymore true. |
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#38 |
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I feel she's back in season four because Russell feels guilty at having cast her then sacking her. He would look very foolish talking up Martha only to have her not do so well.
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#39 |
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Join Date: Aug 2006
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I feel the BBC were right to scale the character back. Martha Jones did flop. How can it be taken any other way when her episodes are slashed?
I mean honestly, why do we have to have these same tired old nonsensical arguments about "Oh, Martha was dropped because she was unpopular... the BBC are unhappy with her... RTD is trying to save face, blah blah...". I'm seriously beginning to wonder if some people on this forum are under the impression that TV dramas are recorded on the day of broadcast. |
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#40 |
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How many more times does this need to be explained to people? The decision for Martha to leave at the end of series three was dreamt up, scripted, recorded and in the can before her first episode was even broadcast. Whether the entire viewing public worshipped her or despised her had absolutely zero effect on that decision as it had been taken months before we even got to see her.
I mean honestly, why do we have to have these same tired old nonsensical arguments about "Oh, Martha was dropped because she was unpopular... the BBC are unhappy with her... RTD is trying to save face, blah blah...". I'm seriously beginning to wonder if some people on this forum are under the impression that TV dramas are recorded on the day of broadcast. Seriously though Mansun is bang on, Martha from the outset was going to leave the TARDIS at the end of season three. It's another show of her strength as a character, yes she traveled with the Doctor but he didn't become her life ala Rose. She had her fun but also knew she had to live her own life. But of course the only possible reason why she is back for both part of Torchwood and season four is because RTD is sorry for firing Freema, in the same way that I only eat hamburgers because I feel sorry for the millions of fat Americans who gorge themselves on them and I'm trying to reduce their food intake. For those who can't tell this post was brought to you by the numbers 4 and 3 and the word SARCASM. |
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#41 |
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Inactive Member
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 929
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Quote:
Why did she start off with a whole season and then only get guest appearances? It's clear the actress who played her wasn't very good and there were rumours that the BBC execs didn't really rate the character highly.
So why did she not do as well as Billie? What counted against her? Was it the writers not writing an interesting character? Was it the unrequited love thing? Was it just the fact she was unconvincing? Why did Martha flop? |
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#42 |
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Join Date: Nov 2006
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Quote:
I feel she's back in season four because Russell feels guilty at having cast her then sacking her.
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#43 |
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Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 5,887
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Quote:
She flopped because the character of Martha Jones was badly devised, there was no charisma between her and David Tennant, but primarly because she cannot act.
She`s the only companion that I couldn't have cared less if she'd met a sticky and untimely end. In fact, in some episodes, I found myself kind of hoping that she'd be a goner, and that the woodworm would get her. ![]() ![]() By the way, note to Black Guardian. I finally watched the Dalek two-parter. My brain feels violated
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#44 |
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Join Date: Jun 2006
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I BELIEVE:
That RTD has a plan for each of his series... Rose meets the doctor falls in love... than leaves... in the old days the doctor could move on without question... however there would be up roar if he did this now... so... Martha was used as a device to help the doctor get over Rose...even though he didnt feel the same way about Martha as she did him.. NOW.. Martha leaves...gets over the doctor...grows as a charectar and i'd bet she'll return with a lover and with Rose returning...balancing everything out. just my opinion =P |
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#45 |
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Iin the old days the doctor could move on without question... however there would be up roar if he did this now... so...
just my opinion =P Its far more in character then the Doctor surrounding himself with an "entourage" ie the RTD years |
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#46 |
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Join Date: Nov 2006
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Had they done that I think Martha would have been a full-time companion next year.
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#47 |
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Join Date: Mar 2007
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Poor actress, simple as. Most of her acting seemed to consist of her opening her mouth and gawping.
Mind you, she'd fit right in on Torchwood, as alot of the acting in that is pretty ropey (although admittedly, the scripts don't help) |
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#48 |
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Join Date: Apr 2004
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Why? It was always the plan for her to leave at the end of series 3 and to come back part-time in series 4.
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#49 |
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According to RTD and his track record of truthfulness regarding the series isn't exactly glowing.
Given that the scripting and filming schedules of series 3 of Doctor Who and series 2 of Torchwood would have made it all but impossible to include Martha in an ongoing arc plot in both series, and given that RTD has very clearly been shown to work out his plots well in advance, I'd say that the weight of evidence is rather on his side in this particular instance. It's getting difficult to find new ways of saying this in this thread, but here goes again - Martha's leaving the series had nothing whatsoever to do with the popularity of either the character or the actress. Jeez, look at it this way - when would they have had time to do the rewrites? You'd have to be looking at at least 2 or 3 weeks in to gauge whether the character should be written out, then you've got to re-write the last episodes, and then re-film and re-edit the last episodes. Meanwhile, the second series of Torchwood would either already be filming, or be just gearing up to film - and they'd all need a last-minute rewrite with at least 3 of the episodes needing to be rewritten completely. And this is not to mention the legal wrangles of rewriting Freema Agyeman's contract. And all of that time, effort and money being needlessly spent because of what? Because a few people on a few internet sites didn't like Martha as much as they did Rose? Does that sound like the actions of the same Russell T. Davies that is bringing Catherine Tate back as a full-time companion, despite overwhelmingly negative feedback? It's pure fantasy. |
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#50 |
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Join Date: Apr 2004
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It's getting difficult to find new ways of saying this in this thread, but here goes again - Martha's leaving the series had nothing whatsoever to do with the popularity of either the character or the actress.
Anyway that's my theory on why Martha only made one series and I certainly don't believe a word that comes out of RTD's mouth on the subject. That's all from me on the subject for now, have a Merry Christmas
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