Oh god not this s***e again!!

Martha Jones didn't flop far from it in fact she proved a very good strong character and as well played by Freema.

The main problem in series 3 was RTD (and I believe he has admitted this) foolishy went down the unrequited love angle and could only resolve it by removing Martha from the Doctor.

She flopped because the character of Martha Jones was badly devised, there was no charisma between her and David Tennant, but primarly because she cannot act.

She`s the only companion that I couldn't have cared less if she'd met a sticky and untimely end. In fact, in some episodes, I found myself kind of hoping that she'd be a goner, and that the woodworm would get her.

RTD has admitted nothing of the sort. He said the story pushed Martha's character into a corner that she couldn't continue travelling in the Tardis. He never once said the angle was a problem or a failure, more that for it to be a success Martha would have to go away for a bit.

I didn't like it but that was the point, I wasn't suppose to like it.

I didn't like series 2 much because nothing was confronted or resolved. That their

She wasn't badly devised, she is very good at acting, she even stood out to me when she was in crossroads with Nancy from Hollyoaks.

She was very badly devised. The unrequited love angle was a pile of utter sh*te. You like her, I don't. Best to agree to disagree.

RTD has admitted nothing of the sort. He said the story pushed Martha's character into a corner that she couldn't continue travelling in the Tardis. He never once said the angle was a problem or a failure, more that for it to be a success Martha would have to go away for a bit.

And I thought it was, I didn't like it but that was the point, I wasn't suppose to.

But as for why I thought the unrequited love thing was a good thing I need to go back to the previous series. The very reason I didn't like series 2 much because nothing was confronted or resolved, that it seemed a bit of a directionless mess. That ok the finale was quite grand and pushed all the right emotional buttons but it totally ignored what the rest of the series had been building up to (ie that the Doctor and Rose's arrogance and insular relationship would be their downfall).

Also it never allowed for a confrontation for what was developing between The Doctor and Rose. See I found the groundwork for the unrequited love story was being laid in series 2. That they were having fun and loving the no responsibilities, travelling together element of their relationship but that they were on different levels when it came to other aspects of their relationship. That there were signs that Rose wanted more from the Doctor than he could offer and that these times he rejected and ignored her but because of Billies departure they didn't have time to fully explore that route. However with Martha they continued this and confronted it, that Martha did want that next level of relationship, a mate, something more conventionally human and this the Doctor could never give to anyone (Martha's feelings of second best coming from the belief that this is what Rose got but we know she didn't).

This is why I personally think the unrequited love was necessary and why I found series 3 to be a success because it addressed things that were left hanging in series 2 and things that I didn't like especially the one-sided aspect of the Doctor/Rose relationship, and the Doctor's being a bit of a git sometimes. That in series 3 this wasn't shown as a good thing, it was confronted and as such I left series 3 feeling much more satisfied. And it did all hinge on the final scene and Martha's depature.

And beyond that I thought the unrequited love thing also brought out the most admirable qualities in Martha, like her selflessness and ability not to let her emotions cloud her when it came to acting (Human Nature/Family Of Blood for example).


(Sorry I don't know what I did but I accidently posted a bit of my post earlier and don't know how to delete it)

Martha was good at the start but drifted, and definitely I could have done without the family. To me she simply wasn't anything special. I feel Rose would have done the whole 'year to save the world thing' with more conviction.

To quote poster, goonerob, directly:

She didn't. Next!

Errrm why? I mean Rose was hardly known for being especially competent was she? I mean she almost got sucked into the void because she forgot to lock a lever properly. The times she did help out she didn't exactly display some amazing skills or anything (swinging from a rope, getting her boyfriend to open a latch), she was very much a companion who was meant to bring normality rather than a companion who was meant to kick arse.

I can understand why people prefer Rose to Martha, but tbh Martha clearly beats Rose in the competency stakes (but then again she beats pretty much everyone except Romana, Babs, The Brig and possibly Sarah Jane)

Not really. Martha was a bungler of the highest order when she bungled. The fob watch in Human Nature? She couldn't even keep that safe. She brought about The Master who slaughtered thousands of people when she finally pushed Yana into opening his fob watch. As a medical student she was a bungler as well. I almost forgot she was a medical student! She slaughtered some pig slaves and make some really nasty jokes about Lazlo becoming a pig slave at the conclusion to Evolution. She was just...not real. I can't believe in someone who is so bland and I feel the BBC were right to scale the character back. Martha Jones did flop. How can it be taken any other way when her episodes are slashed?

I have noticed that in the two clips for Doctor Who and Torchwood, she's either chained up or held prisoner. In TWO of the shows she's a victim character. All that's missing is her screaming or twisting her ankle on a twig. The writers cannot do anything interesting with her. That's why a character like Donna is needed. Martha was weak. Docile. Easily pushed around.



I feel she's back in season four because Russell feels guilty at having cast her then sacking her. He would look very foolish talking up Martha only to have her not do so well.

Freema was more than capable, and the first episode Smith & Jones showed loads of promise, but sadly the unneeded 'love' thing just made her weaker than she should have been. Her best moment is when she tells the Doctor she's 'getting out'.

Hopefully Donna will be much more of the Doctor's mate (not in that way...) rather than fawning after him.

Because you choose to see it that way and that way only, when there are actually several ways it can be interpreted, as have been done here.

Just repeating it again and again till everybody is exhausted from bothering discussing it with you ain't gonna make it anymore true.

Right, so he'll give her a few more episodes in which to show herself up (and by consequence him too) yet again, rather than sweeping her under the carpet. Makes perfect sense.

How many more times does this need to be explained to people? The decision for Martha to leave at the end of series three was dreamt up, scripted, recorded and in the can before her first episode was even broadcast. Whether the entire viewing public worshipped her or despised her had absolutely zero effect on that decision as it had been taken months before we even got to see her.

I mean honestly, why do we have to have these same tired old nonsensical arguments about "Oh, Martha was dropped because she was unpopular... the BBC are unhappy with her... RTD is trying to save face, blah blah...". I'm seriously beginning to wonder if some people on this forum are under the impression that TV dramas are recorded on the day of broadcast.

What?!?!?! You mean they aren't?!?!?! My world has been shattered by this revelation. Next thing you are going to tell people Mr Blobby was just a man in a suit. Why must you ruin dreams so?

Seriously though Mansun is bang on, Martha from the outset was going to leave the TARDIS at the end of season three. It's another show of her strength as a character, yes she traveled with the Doctor but he didn't become her life ala Rose. She had her fun but also knew she had to live her own life.

But of course the only possible reason why she is back for both part of Torchwood and season four is because RTD is sorry for firing Freema, in the same way that I only eat hamburgers because I feel sorry for the millions of fat Americans who gorge themselves on them and I'm trying to reduce their food intake.

For those who can't tell this post was brought to you by the numbers 4 and 3 and the word SARCASM.

This is such old ground that has been covered many many times with the same answer :- It was ALWAYS planned for Martha to just be in one full series, cross over into torchwood then return for 5 episodes is series 4 - these decisions were made LONG before series 3 even started to air - why can't people just get these FACTS through their head???

And the evidence you're basing this on is...?

I didn't think she was too bad, at least in the episodes I've seen of the third series. She was badly let down by RTD though because he couldn't let the character of Rose go. The plotline of the show mentioned Rose far too often especially in comparing the two characters. By having the Doctor refering to Rose all the time and inferring that Martha is a second-choice companion to because he lost Rose, RTD invited the audience to think the same. The whole point of inflicting Catherine Tate on us last Christmas was to allow the Doctor to move on from Rose and not to inflict that kind of angst on the new full-time companion. Had they done that I think Martha would have been a full-time companion next year.

By the way, note to Black Guardian. I finally watched the Dalek two-parter. My brain feels violated

I BELIEVE:

That RTD has a plan for each of his series...
Rose meets the doctor falls in love... than leaves...

in the old days the doctor could move on without question... however there would be up roar if he did this now... so...

Martha was used as a device to help the doctor get over Rose...even though he didnt feel the same way about Martha as she did him..

NOW.. Martha leaves...gets over the doctor...grows as a charectar and i'd bet she'll return with a lover and with Rose returning...balancing everything out.


just my opinion =P

Why? Thats the character..

Its far more in character then the Doctor surrounding himself with an "entourage" ie the RTD years

Why? It was always the plan for her to leave at the end of series 3 and to come back part-time in series 4.

Poor actress, simple as. Most of her acting seemed to consist of her opening her mouth and gawping.

Mind you, she'd fit right in on Torchwood, as alot of the acting in that is pretty ropey (although admittedly, the scripts don't help)

According to RTD and his track record of truthfulness regarding the series isn't exactly glowing.

He's lied about things like not bringing the Master back.

Given that the scripting and filming schedules of series 3 of Doctor Who and series 2 of Torchwood would have made it all but impossible to include Martha in an ongoing arc plot in both series, and given that RTD has very clearly been shown to work out his plots well in advance, I'd say that the weight of evidence is rather on his side in this particular instance.

It's getting difficult to find new ways of saying this in this thread, but here goes again - Martha's leaving the series had nothing whatsoever to do with the popularity of either the character or the actress.

Jeez, look at it this way - when would they have had time to do the rewrites? You'd have to be looking at at least 2 or 3 weeks in to gauge whether the character should be written out, then you've got to re-write the last episodes, and then re-film and re-edit the last episodes. Meanwhile, the second series of Torchwood would either already be filming, or be just gearing up to film - and they'd all need a last-minute rewrite with at least 3 of the episodes needing to be rewritten completely. And this is not to mention the legal wrangles of rewriting Freema Agyeman's contract.

And all of that time, effort and money being needlessly spent because of what? Because a few people on a few internet sites didn't like Martha as much as they did Rose? Does that sound like the actions of the same Russell T. Davies that is bringing Catherine Tate back as a full-time companion, despite overwhelmingly negative feedback? It's pure fantasy.

Then why say it? I never suggested as much. What I am suggesting is that Martha's character would have been around for the whole of the 4th series IF the character had been popular enough to warrant it. She would have returned immediately after the Christmas special, which I believe was and always is destined to be a guest star companion, had the character found the type of popularity that Rose had. Personally I think that during filming or during writing RTD decided that something wasn't working with the character and chose to write her out after one season. Perhaps he decided the character was too similar to Rose and struggled to write for her as a character in her own right. After all, most of Martha's lines could easily have fitted Rose and the main differences in the relationship between Doctor and companion were mostly on the Doctor's side. This theory, and it is just a theory, is re-inforced by the re-casting of Catherine Tate who is a polar opposite to both Martha and Rose. The claim that "it was always intended" is a way of excluding the actress and the writers from any blame and negative career impact in the future.

Anyway that's my theory on why Martha only made one series and I certainly don't believe a word that comes out of RTD's mouth on the subject. That's all from me on the subject for now, have a Merry Christmas