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Old 25-12-2007, 13:30
si29uk
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Why do the British love the under-dog?

I have never understood what it is in the British psyche that makes people prone to do it.

I can think of no other country in the world where being almost good enough is valued more highly than success
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Old 25-12-2007, 13:32
si29uk
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I am not making any specific reference to the recent result. I am thinking more generally...
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Old 26-12-2007, 09:03
Patti-Ann
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I am not making any specific reference to the recent result. I am thinking more generally...

Well plenty of people supported the MacDonalds last year

It's probably because the contestant is obviously doing their best, only to get knocked by the judges comments Brings out the sympathy...
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Old 26-12-2007, 09:11
SGE
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(BTW, I'm being completely serious here). We have just about the best welfare state in the whole world, we are therefore used to supporting the under-dog (and, before anyone jumps on me here, I have nothing against this). It makes us a 'caring' nation. Nothing wrong with that per se, but it DOES encourage results like we had on X Factor.
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Old 26-12-2007, 14:08
ZipGypsy
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(BTW, I'm being completely serious here). We have just about the best welfare state in the whole world, we are therefore used to supporting the under-dog (and, before anyone jumps on me here, I have nothing against this). It makes us a 'caring' nation. Nothing wrong with that per se, but it DOES encourage results like we had on X Factor.
Why didn't Kerry win the XF last year, then?
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Old 26-12-2007, 15:07
Reality Sucks
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(BTW, I'm being completely serious here). We have just about the best welfare state in the whole world, we are therefore used to supporting the under-dog (and, before anyone jumps on me here, I have nothing against this). It makes us a 'caring' nation. Nothing wrong with that per se, but it DOES encourage results like we had on X Factor.
The result was more a case of Leon's ability being severely underestimated by Simon Cowell and the supporters putting him straight IMHO
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Old 26-12-2007, 15:51
Dunvegan
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It looked to me from over the "big water" that Leon was the "safe vote". All the papers and tabs calling Rhydian "weird"...probably influenced some voters.

I think Americans demand to be surprised and blown away. Safe bores us to tears, in general.

Call someone talented but "weird" or "unusual" and Americans go, "Yeah! Something new and brilliant! It's gonzo! Loving it!"

We're pretty much mad for innovation and bleeding-edge experimentation...especially when it's also grounded in excellence in it's basic talent.

We tend to love right from jump-street a Jackson Pollock or an Andy Warhol and lionize the next-new-incredible-thing...whether it's entertainment or art or technology...while the quieter majority of folks elsewhere would remain reserved and put-off until they became used to the innovation.

I never saw a UK mag calling Leon "weird"...Leon was a "safe and comfortable choice"...and he had the perfect "underdog" story-line. That sort of portfolio and promotion probably was a deal-maker when it came down to make-or-break for Leon in the UK.

Here, underdogs get a pat on the back, told to work harder, and sent back to the "farm leagues" for seasoning.

The underdog story isn't a really a consideration for stardom in the States.

Professional, surprising and unusual talent is.
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Old 26-12-2007, 15:56
Psychosis
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Why didn't Kerry win the XF last year, then?
Because she wasn't a particularly nice person, much like Niki this year, and people don't tend to see arrogant women as underdogs.
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Old 26-12-2007, 16:09
coda
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Why do the British love the under-dog?

I have never understood what it is in the British psyche that makes people prone to do it.

I can think of no other country in the world where being almost good enough is valued more highly than success
Well, this year the weaker contestant beat the stronger act.
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Old 26-12-2007, 17:39
babeth
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It looked to me from over the "big water" that Leon was the "safe vote". All the papers and tabs calling Rhydian "weird"...probably influenced some voters.

I think Americans demand to be surprised and blown away. Safe bores us to tears, in general.

Call someone talented but "weird" or "unusual" and Americans go, "Yeah! Something new and brilliant! It's gonzo! Loving it!"

We're pretty much mad for innovation and bleeding-edge experimentation...especially when it's also grounded in excellence in it's basic talent.

We tend to love right from jump-street a Jackson Pollock or an Andy Warhol and lionize the next-new-incredible-thing...whether it's entertainment or art or technology...while the quieter majority of folks elsewhere would remain reserved and put-off until they became used to the innovation.

I never saw a UK mag calling Leon "weird"...Leon was a "safe and comfortable choice"...and he had the perfect "underdog" story-line. That sort of portfolio and promotion probably was a deal-maker when it came down to make-or-break for Leon in the UK.

Here, underdogs get a pat on the back, told to work harder, and sent back to the "farm leagues" for seasoning.

The underdog story isn't a really a consideration for stardom in the States.

Professional, surprising and unusual talent is.
Dunvegan, Most of your post seem to strike a chord with me. This post more so. Are you my lost twin separated at birth?

I like risk takers and innovators. I could name a few that have been called weird that I like such as for example, Bowie, Prince, and Janice Joplin. Including painters, fashion desginers and more. In fact everything of the art. What they have in common is that they all telented. Yes some of them can play musical intruments

But they are not what a lot of people are comfortable with and what they call normal.

As you can see I do not do safe. Thats why I have seen someone like Prince so many times in concerts.

God knows what Rhydian would do if they set him free. As far as I understand he can write music and loves innovation. Well that has excited me even more.

Musicians and music lovers who are friends of mine in the USA has seen Rhydian on you tube and are blown away and wondering when he will be in the states. Well that tells me something like you have discovered. They equally like his ballads, entertainment and theatre performances.

Am partly British and I do not do safe I like what people may refer to the abnormal, unusual, risky and weird. Well for me its normal.

Hopefully we could have the cd out then the concert. For the first time after a long time I cannot wait to see this artist.

Regards

Babeth
x
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Old 26-12-2007, 17:43
Dunvegan
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Babeth...I have this fantasy of expected criticisms...of how young and unknown David Bowie as "Ziggy Stardust" ("How weird...look at his pale skin and odd hair!"), Freddy Mercury ("Wow...what a flamin' lunatic...too much classical training, not rock...and way too over the top!"), and Bob Dylan ("Oooo, isn't his voice tedious!) would have come in second, third and fourth to Leon Jackson this year on X-Factor.

Not to mention that poor MeatLoaf wouldn't have even made it out of boot camp. (Look how arrogant! Total twit. Pudgy git so full of himself...you couldn't pay me to vote for that!")

Resting my case now....
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Old 26-12-2007, 20:48
Morgan66
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Why didn't Kerry win the XF last year, then?
I think she got a lot further than she should have - I couldn't believe it when she got through to the final when Jonathan didn't (remember him - really good looking, fantastic voice, wonderful personality, AND a carer for his mother so he also had the sob story). I actually think she got through to the final because she was the underdog
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Old 26-12-2007, 20:55
si29uk
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Kerry is a professional actor - this fact was glossed over in all of her sob story segments

She appeared in a C4 sitcom called The Book Group (as I am sure many on here are aware)

Nikki has also had a reasonable amount of professional singing work. But she was presented as someone with a dream and no experience.

They weren't proper underdogs - they were just peddling an image

Very underhand
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Old 26-12-2007, 21:30
Reality Sucks
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Babeth...I have this fantasy of expected criticisms...of how young and unknown David Bowie as "Ziggy Stardust" ("How weird...look at his pale skin and odd hair!"), Freddy Mercury ("Wow...what a flamin' lunatic...too much classical training, not rock...and way too over the top!"), and Bob Dylan ("Oooo, isn't his voice tedious!) would have come in second, third and fourth to Leon Jackson this year on X-Factor.

Not to mention that poor MeatLoaf wouldn't have even made it out of boot camp. (Look how arrogant! Total twit. Pudgy git so full of himself...you couldn't pay me to vote for that!")

Resting my case now....
Somewhat annoying comparisons as I have music by all the people you've mentioned in my collection (bar meatloaf) and tend to go for alternative, edgy music. However. I voted for Leon as I much preferred his voice.

Rhydian's image was created for him by the X Factor stylists. Left to his own devices he looked a little too orange and didn't have much style, so the comparisons with Bowie and Freddy Mercury are meaningless as they created their own images.

I don't deny that he had a good look eventually which gained him quite a few fans (the Spike from Buffy the Vampire slayer meets Rutger Hauer look) Added to that his stage presence and powerful voice combined to give him a theatrical and dramatic presence,

However, Leon had a raw talent and vulnerability that also appealed to many . He took risks on finals night too and pushed himself to the limit. If he hadn't, there's no way he would have won.
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Old 26-12-2007, 23:19
Toxic Lemon
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Well, this year the weaker contestant beat the stronger act.
Or the deserving contestant beat the dullard.
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Old 26-12-2007, 23:21
Sleeper Service
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Or the deserving contestant beat the dullard.
Irony.
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Old 27-12-2007, 00:24
ForGodsSake
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Or the deserving contestant beat the dullard.
I thought Leon won?
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Old 27-12-2007, 00:33
Chops1952
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Leon was never the underdog in my eyes. The best competitor won simple as.
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Old 27-12-2007, 00:34
SGE
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Leon was never the underdog in my eyes. The best competitor won simple as.

Okiedokie.
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Old 27-12-2007, 00:35
ForGodsSake
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Leon was never the underdog in my eyes. The best competitor won simple as.
You DO know that Rhydian lost?
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Old 27-12-2007, 00:40
Chops1952
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You DO know that Rhydian lost?
Spread the word
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Old 27-12-2007, 01:40
MARTYM8
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Its not really the British who love an underdog.

Put a guy from a poor background whose dad left him as a baby, who spent his life in a family on benefits, went to a state school and had never had any singing lessons or training up against a guy from a comparatively well off family who went to a public school and had received classical training and I think you would find most people in most countries would go for the former.

People just love a rags to riches story - Americans more than anyone (Leon represents the American dream if ever there was one!)
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Old 27-12-2007, 13:46
Faria262
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Its not really the British who love an underdog.

Put a guy from a poor background whose dad left him as a baby, who spent his life in a family on benefits, went to a state school and had never had any singing lessons or training up against a guy from a comparatively well off family who went to a public school and had received classical training and I think you would find most people in most countries would go for the former.

People just love a rags to riches story - Americans more than anyone (Leon represents the American dream if ever there was one!)

It wouldn't be so much of a problem if the two contenders were more eaually matched in terms of talent than Rhydian and Leon. There are plenty of untrained singers who could've cut it in the live shows, and I'm sure not all classically trained singers would, but for me Leon was an average singer with little experience, and a pointless winner next to Rhydian, who was probably a better singer than Leon at his age (before his training) and seemed to have more about him.

As for Kerry, I don't think she was any less likeable than Leon. I didn't find Kerry arrogant - or Niki, actually. I like it when acts stand up to the judges! Maybe Kerry was seen as too obvious an underdog - or Leona's underdoghood - if you know what I mean (her shyness, receptionist job) was more relevant to the show? (She, Shayne and Leon all had similar stories, and Steve's was obviously the usual O25s backup story (it was his last chance) and later on, Sharon's vendetta against him. 2 to Go didn't win that series either, despite having a blind member.
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Old 27-12-2007, 14:32
The Spoon
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Why didn't Kerry win the XF last year, then?
because she was a good singer, but not as good as Leona?

because the public cannot see past a disability?

because she was 'too old'?

a whole host of reasons.
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Old 27-12-2007, 15:09
Reality Sucks
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because she was a good singer, but not as good as Leona?

because the public cannot see past a disability?

because she was 'too old'?

a whole host of reasons.

Because her voice just wasn't special enough IMO. She was a tad old fashioned for today's market, better than Verity but in the same sort of vein.
If we always back the underdog, surely Ray or the MacDonalds would have won last year?
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