None of us are going to disagree with that. We've got our show back and it's great.

But every series the best episodes are by the guest writers. They should be sounding out more of today's top scriptwriters to submit stories for consideration and reduce the burden on RTD to continuously come up with fresh situations for his characters. I wouldn't even want Moffat to contribute half the episodes in a series, just his best 2 episodes.

"Queer as Folk" was as good as TV drama can get but QAF 2 was poor (I still loved the characters but not what they were made to do).

it is outrageous for people to suggest that the only reason we are moaning is because we all have an agenda.

that xmas episode was rubbish telly.

it was sacharine, bland, unimaginative, lazy, tiresome, and unwatchable..... I switched it off.

my only agenda is that I want quality entertainment please.

Far from it. Who fans like nothing more than a good moan. Its what they like best about the show. Recently I met possibly the most idiotic fan ever who said that the show shouldn't have any sort of large budget as the spirit of the show was the dodgy sets, visiting the quarries and the bad effects. The muppet finished by saying the BBC had stolen Dr Who from the fans!

As the the episode. Absolutely brilliant. It wasn't rubbish telly and i fail to see how even if you didn't like this particular episode that you could appreciate anything about it. How was it unwatchable? Never mind. don't reply. I forgot, you just want a moan.

QED

Regards,

Cypher

Well it was great that RTD revived Who, and alot of credit needs to go to him for that, but maybe it's time he passed baton on, as the guy just seems to have run out of ideas. Last night's show was so cliched and unoriginal it was unreal.

I will admit quite freely, I thought it was great, just what I needed on Christmas Day.

Then I come on here and everyones slagging it off, why? It was good telly.

The moaners won't be happy until the series gets canceled, then they will moan at the BBC for canceling it.

Never seen Dr Who before but saw it last night it was amazing

Thats like with little britain fans, they loved series 1 because it was cult, but as soon as it moved to BBC 1 and got popular with chavs they all disowned it and now you'll be lucky to find an active fanboard for the show.

I've been a fan of a lot of cult shows (red dwarf, fast show, dr who, little britain, torchwood, mighty boosh, father ted, my hero etc) and I've seen all of them fall out of popularity when they got popular.

Cult fans are fickle things, one minute they love it, the next the hate it.

I think people need to remember that last night's ep was a christmas special of a primarily children's show. It's not meant to be taken seriously. Just a bit of light hearted fun. It was a lot better than gridlock (series 3), rose (series 2) and the 2 previous christmas specials and almost definitely all of the classic episodes lol.

This is actually my first moan about it...

I hate all disaster movies (especially the bleedin' Poseidon Adventure) and I didn't want to see an homage/ripoff/plagiarised version of something so rubbish.

And I felt the episode fell into an uncomfortable place for Xmas - not wonderfully dark and scary to make it best Dr Who ever, not light hearted and funny to make it a fun romp for the festive holidays. Just depressing death after depressing death, and not even a happy ending. I fear it was designed to fit in between the two episodes of Eastenders, the worst and most depressing show on TV!!!

dr who should be scary / creepy and sometimes mysterious ..the atmosphere is all wrong ..like its set up soley for david tennant show case hero the mad dash to save the world as usual ...its got so ..b.o.r.i.n.g ... its too much about him at the moment ...

you do know what the programme is called don't you
And to think it was only last year evryone was complaining it was all about Rose and not the doctor ...

The fact is that many people on this forum can't see past the 'written by RTD' on the credits of an episode. I'd be willing to bet that if VOTD had been credited to Steven Moffat, it would have received far less harsh treatment on these boards. Let's face it, that's exactly what happened with the embarrassment that was Time Crash.

You only have to read some of the pre-emptive comments in this thread to see how true your observation is, Chris.

Regards,

Cypher

And by the o/p of this thread too - lol

That's a tad unfair Tim. It's not about popularity and it's way off the mark to suggest it. I've seen this mentioned often, normally as a way of devalueing someones argument. If you went to a Harry Potter forum, or a Lord of the Rings forum you'd see a lot of people spitting venom on the movie versions of the books. They've seen something they love and hate the way it's been interpreted (in bold because it's the important bit of this post ). It's not because it's no longer 'their property'. The new series of Doctor Who is an interpretation of the original show. Some older fans like it, others don't.

Oh and as for the theory that some of the anti-new series posters only come on here to post hatred against it, well if you look in the main Voyage of the Damned thread, I enjoyed the christmas special and said as much. When I enjoy it I'll say so, it's just that it doesn't happen often

VOTD was the best thing on telly (so far) this xmas, the AI rating was 86 (excellant and the best mainstream figure) and the viewing figures were outstanding, the polls on the forums rate it so the question is do we want a show wrapped up in continuity (which new who drips very slowly back in) with poor sets and jobbing writers or do we want big ,bold, showy and expensive (relativly) but most importantly family friendly non reality telly, RTD will always atract flak as a massive fan of the show he got the balls to do it his way and attract a massive mainstream\family audience when he steps away and the clamour for moffat ( yes his hit rate is four\four) or cornell (three\three) and they are to busy to commit for four years and we are left with an ex-staffer at my family we will look back at these years with acute fondness,
yes RTD has written some of the poorer episodes (long game\boom town) and only liked TRB on its second viewing but when he is good he is very good.

My thoughts concerning a lot of long term fans weren't directed at those who merely have a different opinion on Who, or those who simply do not like the new interpretation.

That's their perogative - got no problem with that. I've got no right to have a problem with that.

My issue is with those who continually spit intellectually bankrupt bile on the show, ranting hysterically about how DW is being destroyed, stating their opinion as if it was fact in a breathtaking display of arrogance.

Gets my goat up, to tell you the truth.

I've met plenty of folk like that in real life (the JNT/Williams haters) - gave you some anecdotes earlier, so, as a phenomenon, I know they do exist.

It was not intended as a broad brush comment to encompass all long-term fans (as I'm one myself), and you're certainly excluded Mr. Rooks...

Regards,

Cypher

I understand what you are saying. It works both ways though. There's an equal number of posters that simply won't have a bad word said against the show and they use the "oh your are a real fan so you hate everything because we took back the series from you" argument which is utter claptrap. Then again, I'm still in a state of shock from defending the show early on. I'm sure when Christmas is over I'll get back to my normal self

CORRECT!!!

It seems those that have occasional valid criticisms of the programme (such as myself and others) do often mention the good episodes - I regularly say how much I thought "Blink" was fantastic Dr Who, as was "Girl in the Fireplace", "Werewolves", "Dalek" etc.

However those that uber-defend the show always seem as if they think it is perfect and NEVER mention any negatives. They then harras, and verbally assault those who dare to criticise their beloved show and their beloved leader. It is the apologists who take it eprsonally - as if the porgramme is their proeprty.

It was good episode and it delivered the viewers.Simple

Yes, moaners, you are moaning. Dress it up how you like, justify it how you like but, on the balance of probabilities, you are moaning. Judge Dyson has spoken.

I personally thought the Xmas Special was a bit dull as it lacked a really strong sci-fi element but clearly lots of people liked something about it. For me, the scene with "The Cribbins" and the coda with Clive Swift made it worth watching. It was not however the end of the world, a travesty of entertainment, the poorest television anywhere, a waste of licence payer's money...zzzzz....

For every 'Aliens of London' (that had a really good pre-credits sequence by the way) there's a 'Blink' (slow starter but came good). For every RTD script that isn't aimed at me, there's another RTD script which really inspires - is there anyone who didn't feel the hairs on the back of their neck stand up when Christopher Eccleston gave his 'NO' speech? Daleks and Cybermen arguing in a Dad's army tribute fashion? Loved it.

Yes, in a perfect world, there'd be twice the writing staff, four times the budget 48 hours in a day and anyone they ever wanted to cast would be instantly available. But this isn't a perfect world, and in an age with so much pain and misery, and having missed this programme for years before it came back, I'll gladly suffer something like The Idiot's Lantern (shame they cut the line linking it to Logopolis) because someone somewhere will have really enjoyed it and that makes it worthwhile in my book even if it's not the best telly ever.

Werewolves? I must have missed that one, I watched Tooth and Claw instead.

I'm sure I remember a certain producer commenting a few times in the confidential program that if the Who fans are up in arms complaining he's done something right. Sounds as if he has!

Maybe people only make these threads about moaning as to get Dervish's valuable insight. After all she only seems to post when she has something to whine about or if Ghosts come into the equation.

Ghosts which of course as we all know MOAN. Coincidence?

I enjoyed it, the bit with peth turning into that blue cloud was rubbish, but besides that it was good family christmas entertainment, although parts were a bit obvious.