[Jumbo_Holden]

Do you think Blu-Ray / HD-DVD will ever replace standard DVD?

I'm not sure. I really really hope it doesn't personally the new 2 can both go to hell as far as I'm concerned. Having looked at the 2 I just really don't see the point. High Definition so bloody what?

If I had to choose 1 I'd back the HD-DVD for various reasons, but if one of them does go on and become the new standard I do think it will be Blu-Ray.

I hope however that most people just say 'sod it' though and stick with standard DVD for another 15 years as there’s nothing wrong with it.

But what are some of your thoughts?

[stvn758]

You really haven't compared hi def with a standard DVD then, if you think that.

Hi Def is like watching in 3D compared to the other.

[aerialplug]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jumbo_Holden

Do you think Blu-Ray / HD-DVD will ever replace standard DVD?

I'm not sure. I really really hope it doesn't personally the new 2 can both go to hell as far as I'm concerned. Having looked at the 2 I just really don't see the point. High Definition so bloody what?

If I had to choose 1 I'd back the HD-DVD for various reasons, but if one of them does go on and become the new standard I do think it will be Blu-Ray.

I hope however that most people just say 'sod it' though and stick with standard DVD for another 15 years as there’s nothing wrong with it.

But what are some of your thoughts?

I strongly disagree. I really struggle to understand why you hate a picture format that's four times sharper than standard definition - and you give no reason for your hatred. I start to wonder what display technology you used to make these assumptions...

Apart from early problems with frame rate issues which will hopefully be solved soon, HD beats standard definition hands down IMO.

I've just been gawping at Planet Earth on blu-ray - it looks absolutely fabulous compared to the DVD version which I also have.

With regard to which standard that eventually survives - I'm on the fence (despite being an early blu-ray adopter). As long as a HD standard format becomes widely available and one or the other pulls through I'll be happy.

So, please explain to us the logic of why you think "the new 2 can both go to hell "? I hope they can coexist for a while but I certainly think a HD format most definitely is long overdue on the market.

HD makes little difference on 30 inch screen technology and only starts to make a difference on 40 inch. You REALLY see the difference on anything 50+ (plasma/LCD/projection - who cares - the future screens are inevitably going to be bigger in many homes).

I also think DVD has a good future for a few years to come, but I also think that most people will rather see the best results possible for their displays - especially now that the average household is buying TVs far larger than they were 10 years ago due to the drop in price of flat screen technology.

[Jumbo_Holden]

Quote:

I really struggle to understand why you hate a picture format that's four times sharper than standard definition - and you give no reason for your hatred. I start to wonder what display technology you used to make these assumptions...

I don't hate it, I just don't really see the point. Oh you can see the cracks and sweat on the presenters faces and the dust come off the tenis ball.... So what?

[Cookie Jar]

I dont see why it cant. Its always happened in technology, things get replaced by the next thing. Cassettes made way for CD's, VHS made way for DVD. It just seems to come along alot quicker nowadays and thats what I think people dont like. I only just got my nan into DVD's a bout 2 years ago, now she see's me with my PS3 and Blu-ray disc and shes miffed.

But i fully expect it to take off, and I expect it will be Blu-ray out of the two formats that will become the standard. Its just all a matter of when, and cost.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jumbo_Holden

Do you think Blu-Ray / HD-DVD will ever replace standard DVD?

I'm not sure. I really really hope it doesn't personally the new 2 can both go to hell as far as I'm concerned. Having looked at the 2 I just really don't see the point. High Definition so bloody what?

If I had to choose 1 I'd back the HD-DVD for various reasons, but if one of them does go on and become the new standard I do think it will be Blu-Ray.

I hope however that most people just say 'sod it' though and stick with standard DVD for another 15 years as there’s nothing wrong with it.

But what are some of your thoughts?

I couldnt care less about HD in general. So long as I can watch TV and films clearly thats all I care about. But I think one day everything will be HD so HD DVD or Blu-ray will probably replace normal DVDS one day but I think we've got a few years for that to happen yet.

EDIT: I'll probably be joining the HD crew soon cos we want to get a new TV nad they have some nice 32" HD ready TV's in Argos.

[pauljs]

The PS3 has really launched Blu ray, the standalone players are way to pricey in todays market

Eventually as the price comes down and basic combi players will play every format it won't really matter. Look what happened to cd's and the different dvd recorder formats

With HD players now £199 and even cheaper in the US, they should be £30 - £50 in 3 to 5 years

[aerialplug]

As long as they sort out frame rate issues. Both HD-DVD & BD are currently releasing films in 24p, which is the native format of film - a very good thing indeed, in the long run.

Sadly, nobody seems to have anticipated this (!!) as most currently available players and most screens don't display this format and convert it into the very bad but most common compromise of the American 60p format which is the most convenient way of doing it but it sucks for British/European viewers as we're not used to the horrible jitter on pans added by this conversion as it employs 3:2 pull-down.

In the short run, I'll probably be only buying material that I'll know will look gorgeous in HD on blu-ray and the rest, I'll be happy with the superb up-conversion from DVD to HD by my blu-ray player as I really find the jitter from 3:2 pull-down distracting.

[Zazou]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jumbo_Holden

I hope however that most people just say 'sod it' though and stick with standard DVD for another 15 years as there’s nothing wrong with it.

These are the same type of people who thought that TV would never catch on after years of people listening to the radio, that colour TV would never catch on after watching it for years in black & white, and that DVD would never catch on after.....you get the picture. After all, who wants to replace all their VHS cassettes.....

[bobcar]

Quote:

Originally Posted by aerialplug

As long as they sort out frame rate issues. Both HD-DVD & BD are currently releasing films in 24p, which is the native format of film - a very good thing indeed, in the long run.

Sadly, nobody seems to have anticipated this (!!) as most currently available players and most screens don't display this format and convert it into the very bad but most common compromise of the American 60p format which is the most convenient way of doing it but it sucks for British/European viewers as we're not used to the horrible jitter on pans added by this conversion as it employs 3:2 pull-down.

In the short run, I'll probably be only buying material that I'll know will look gorgeous in HD on blu-ray and the rest, I'll be happy with the superb up-conversion from DVD to HD by my blu-ray player as I really find the jitter from 3:2 pull-down distracting.

I wish they'd just do the slight speed up to i/p50, I could never tell - I realise that's worse for some people but they could always have the choice of i/p60.

[aerialplug]

Quote:

Originally Posted by bobcar

I wish they'd just do the slight speed up to i/p50, I could never tell - I realise that's worse for some people but they could always have the choice of i/p60.

unfortunately it's not so simple. To do the standard 24 to 25 "speedup" which we're so used to is an art in and of itself that can't be yet boxed up in a player.

There's the pitch of the audio to deal with - it may sound simple to let the audio change with the frame rate change but everyone would then sound like they're on helium, not to mention musicians who get infuriated when music is played in the wrong key.

To do the audio conversion back to the original frequencies using furrier conversion on the fly is now probably just about doable - but still may not work 100% of the time.

And that's just one issue...

[Jarrak]

No consumer media product will ever sell as well as DVD did and in such short a space of time, everything was right for the format to be introduced.

As for HD well Warner said it themselves, the window of opportunity is much smaller for HD than DVD due to the IPTV and other net based distribution methods that are not that far away from being mainstream in the major markets.
Factor in the format war, the desires of all studios even SONY to sell DRM rich content via the net and the huge userbase of DVD then I can not see HD totally replacing DVD before HD itself comes up direct threat from another method of distribution.

[bobcar]

Quote:

Originally Posted by aerialplug

unfortunately it's not so simple. To do the standard 24 to 25 "speedup" which we're so used to is an art in and of itself that can't be yet boxed up in a player.

There's the pitch of the audio to deal with - it may sound simple to let the audio change with the frame rate change but everyone would then sound like they're on helium, not to mention musicians who get infuriated when music is played in the wrong key.

To do the audio conversion back to the original frequencies using furrier conversion on the fly is now probably just about doable - but still may not work 100% of the time.

And that's just one issue...

Sorry but that's what has been happening with DVDs since day 1 (in UK). How many people complain about DVD sound quality in this respect - almost none.

As I said in my post for people with perfect pitch it's a problem, for the rest of us it's not. There's no translation "on the fly" we just hear a higher tone.

Do you not own any DVDs?

Some films such as "Lord of the rings" have had the sound altered (not "on the fly") but most have not, in any case it's exactly the same for DVDs and HD-DVD/BluRay if they were to output at i/p50.

The translation you talk about is to the "Fourier" domain not the "furrier conversion" you mention - basically maths is easier if you translate to Fourier or Laplace domains when doing comms or control work (I do this regularly as part of my work in telecommunications, what it does is translate time functions ito a different dimension (dimension is too flash really but it sounds good)). If you want to introduce technical terms please make sure you understand them and can spell them correctly.

[Jumbo_Holden]

For the record I do realise that Blu-Ray / HD-DVD players will still play DVD as well, so it's not like I have to buy everything over again. I am being somewhat arrogant.

The thing that originally attracted me to DVD (as I personally argue was the same for a lot of people). Was not quality it was more quaintly and connivance. I.E you didn't have to rewind stuff to the start and could jump to what you wanted etc. That and quaintly, In that with VHS when you wanted to buy a tape of a favourite TV show it would always be only like 3 episodes of it on a tape that would get released. With DVD they release entire series/seasons of shows. It was that what sold DVD to me personally far more than quality. I think it was the same for other people as well.

[bobcar]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jumbo_Holden

For the record I do realise that Blu-Ray / HD-DVD players will still play DVD as well, so it's not like I have to buy everything over again. I am being somewhat arrogant.

The thing that originally attracted me to DVD (as I personally argue was the same for a lot of people). Was not quality it was more quaintly and connivance. I.E you didn't have to rewind stuff to the start and could jump to what you wanted etc. That and quaintly, In that with VHS when you wanted to buy a tape of a favourite TV show it would always be only like 3 episodes of it on a tape that would get released. With DVD they release entire series/seasons of shows. It was that what sold DVD to me personally far more than quality. I think it was the same for other people as well.

That's also true for the majority of the viewing public, we on this forum are not typical of the public as a whole.

High definition DVD (of whichever format) will become as cheap as standard DVD and then it will become the norm.

I would expect the next format after high definition DVD not to be a disc at all but a card (together with downloads of course) and everything to be solid state.

[You_mo]

Price will be the decider. I don't think it's 'sexy' enough or 'must have' for the general public to love it yet. People I've talked to have seen how sharp the picture is and they usually admire the colours, but when they see the price they say they're happy with their DVDs. I've also seen sales people in shops at the moment trying to pass off upscalers as HD. That's further confusing people.

[You_mo]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zazou

These are the same type of people who thought that TV would never catch on after years of people listening to the radio, that colour TV would never catch on after watching it for years in black & white, and that DVD would never catch on after.....you get the picture. After all, who wants to replace all their VHS cassettes.....

But then again, are we the people who thought laser disc being far superior to VHS would catch on? Or the better system of betamax would win? Sometimes the general public just don't go for things!

I personally think the HD DVD will catch on but it won't reach the same market saturation as SD DVDs. Something else will replace HD DVD before that, maybe solid state as someone mentioned earlier. Everything seems to move faster now!

[TheBigM]

Bluray/HD DVD have only two things over normal DVD - higher definition and more interactivity is possible.

Compare that to the multitudinous advantages that DVD has over VHS and there is certainly not the same impetus to buy the next gen disc formats.

I think piracy has shown us the way in that digital distribution will become the next major method of viewing movies. Either going to a kiosk in a supermarket (as opposed to a blockbuster store which will die out pretty quickly) where you download your movie onto a USB key or something and play at home. Or download via the internet to your central storage from where the media can be piped all around your house or onto your portable media players.

All that's left is for studios to work out a copyright protection mechanism that they are satisfied with.

[Gilson]

I do not think that discs either HD- DVD or BRD will be around for much longer as either we will download HD from the internet direct to hard disc or it will be supplied on plug in memory cards similar to HS SD cards.

[Nigel Goodwin]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gilson

I do not think that discs either HD- DVD or BRD will be around for much longer as either we will download HD from the internet direct to hard disc or it will be supplied on plug in memory cards similar to HS SD cards.

But we've been saying that for decades now, ever since CD's started - and it's never happened yet!.

Regardless of the fall in price of such memories, it's never going to be anywhere near as cheap (or quick) as stamping a CD or DVD.

Where it 'might' become plausible is for home recording?, with many DVD players already having USB slots to play back memory cards.

[bobcar]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nigel Goodwin

But we've been saying that for decades now, ever since CD's started - and it's never happened yet!.

Regardless of the fall in price of such memories, it's never going to be anywhere near as cheap (or quick) as stamping a CD or DVD.

Where it 'might' become plausible is for home recording?, with many DVD players already having USB slots to play back memory cards.

The memory cards won't be based upon current FLASH technology as that will never be cheap enough for mass distribution of programmes, basically the card (or disc) cannot cost more than pence.

However there are technologies in the pipeline (organic memories being one possibility) that will bring this low cost to the programme distribution market. High definition DVDs will probably displace DVDs before then (when they come down to the same cost) but after that discs etc which require moving parts will become obsolete.

[booie]

Well now that Warner Bros has decided to stop supporting HD-DVD in favour of Blu-Ray it looks like the high def disc format war could be over, leaving only Paramount and Dreamworks still supporting HD-DVD.

This will probably speed up sales of blu ray players and so sales of blu ray discs will increase, so id say in time it will take over dvd but i think it will be a very long time.

[Gilson]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nigel Goodwin

But we've been saying that for decades now, ever since CD's started - and it's never happened yet!.

Regardless of the fall in price of such memories, it's never going to be anywhere near as cheap (or quick) as stamping a CD or DVD.

Where it 'might' become plausible is for home recording?, with many DVD players already having USB slots to play back memory cards.

I disagree- never before has fast access storage become attractive in terms of capacity and price as a means of archiving video.

IMHO it doesnt have to be that cheap although as Bobcar says there are new technologies on the horizon that can make this type of media more economically viable even for distribution.

I agree that these devices will probably first replace the recordable DVD of which as you are aware I have a low opinion both from a long term robustness and quality aspect.

[Zazou]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gilson

I do not think that discs either HD- DVD or BRD will be around for much longer as either we will download HD from the internet direct to hard disc or it will be supplied on plug in memory cards similar to HS SD cards.

You must have a better broadband supplier than me. Not sure me downloading 30Gb movies would please my ISP very much. They will come, but it's definitely years away, not months. It all depends if you want true HD, even Sky HD broadcasts are well below the quality of Blu-ray or HD DVD. For anyone that hasn't watched a Blu-ray or HD DVD movie on a nice 1080p screen, try and make it happen. It is extremely impressive.

[gamercraig]

If you're lucky enough to live in a cabled area then fine, you could download HD movies, but anywhere else (even with BTs forthcoming 21CN network) forget it!!