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Thinking about buying an i=pod, but I don't like i-tunes


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Old 08-01-2008, 17:17
violetultra
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Opinons please!

I currently have a Zen Vision: M but I am becoming increasingly annoyed by the lack of decent accesories. In particular I want a decent docking station (with speakers).

Sooooo, I'm considering becoming a traitor and going over to the evil land of the I-pod. However, I'm not an i-tunes fan. I was wondering whether a classic I-pod can be used with Windows Media Player?

Alternatively, is there a well-supported MP3 player that anyone can recommend?

Let battle commence!!!
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Old 08-01-2008, 17:27
Sananda Maitreya
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i wouldn't bother since you don't like itunes and consider the ipod evil.
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Old 08-01-2008, 17:30
violetultra
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i wouldn't bother since you don't like itunes and consider the ipod evil.
Thanks for your help.
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Old 08-01-2008, 17:38
Sananda Maitreya
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Thanks for your help.
why are you confused? you asked for opinions "opinions please" and said you were considering an ipod. i gave you my opinion that, based on what you had written, an ipod is not for you.
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Old 08-01-2008, 18:38
Rugby Rose
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There are other iPod managers out there, but generally, I'm with Sananda - if you don't like iPods or iTunes then don't get an iPod.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compari..._iPod_Managers
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Old 08-01-2008, 19:02
sancheeez
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I currently have a Zen Vision: M but I am becoming increasingly annoyed by the lack of decent accesories. In particular I want a decent docking station (with speakers).
http://www.play.com/Electronics/Elec...M/Product.html

Cheaper than buying an iPod!

You pretty much have to install iTunes at some point in order to update the firmware on the iPod itself. I think so anyway .... can you update it without iTunes? I suspect not.

You don't *have* to use iTunes once you have it updated though. My wife uses Media Monkey to load music onto hers now as iTunes can't handle the volume normalisation info I have in all our MP3's.

But I'd go along with the first reply. If you like the way the Zen works, and don't like iTunes, why change?

What else do you need? Functionally, I'd say the Vision:M is a better player anyway. Handles video a lot better than the iPod and the screen is reportedly better as well.
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Old 08-01-2008, 23:39
Purpleduck
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To be fair - I can kind of see where the OP is coming from.

I quite like the whole look of an iPod, but I don't like iTunes much and don't like the way they seem more expensive than other players.

I therefore bought an iRiver last year, which has a bigger memory than an iPod in that price range, better headphones and doesn't use iTunes.

Having said all that, the accessories for iPods look great. There are some brilliant docking stations and all sorts of accessories that are totally unusable with any other brand, which I would really love to have. When my current MP3 player conks out I'm fairly sure that despite my initial reservations, I'll move over to an iPod.
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Old 09-01-2008, 00:13
christocar
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Well I love my Zen vision M, and am thinking about this speaker dock for it. Does anyone who has it know if it fits the 60BG version or just the 30?
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Old 09-01-2008, 00:49
sancheeez
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Having said all that, the accessories for iPods look great. There are some brilliant docking stations and all sorts of accessories that are totally unusable with any other brand, which I would really love to have.
Like what?

I just don't get the whole accessories thing?

I can kind of see the point of a docking station but I don't have one. I have an amp I can connect my media player up to if I want sound out of bigger speakers. Beyond that, I can't see what else I'd need? I got a carry case with my player .... what else is there? I can connect to the car fine, I got any cables I'd ever need for it with it when I bought it .....

I prefer to have something truly portable .... that can connect to TV's, car stereos, cameras, any computer without the need for software or authorisation or any other crap. As generic, functional and portable as I can possibly get it is my goal ... I don't want to have to build my life around a product buying loads of compatible stuff to go with it.
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Old 09-01-2008, 07:14
violetultra
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Well I love my Zen vision M, and am thinking about this speaker dock for it. Does anyone who has it know if it fits the 60BG version or just the 30?
The Z500 does indeed fit the 60GB ZVM, but it is now mpossible to get. It seems to have been discontinued by Creative as they are discontinuing the ZVM in favour of the straight Zen. (Which is a tragedy because it is a cracking unit.) The only place the Z500 seems to available is on the Creative Singapore site and they will not ship internationally.

And that was what prompted the enquiry. I love my ZVM but can see that it is going to be increasingly obsolete. I very much want to convert to an all digital way of buying and playing music. It's just not going to be an option with my ZVM.

Still, I don't want to succumb to the aggressive marketing of the I-pod! But they do seem to have the docking station market utterly cornered. Sure you can get stations that allow you to play your ZVM through the headphone jack. but that's not really good enough!

Still, thanks for everyone's help. Looks like the i-pod is looming.
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Old 09-01-2008, 07:19
violetultra
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There are other iPod managers out there, but generally, I'm with Sananda - if you don't like iPods or iTunes then don't get an iPod.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compari..._iPod_Managers
I diodn't say I didn't like i-pods - I actually think they're quite elegant and they are quite easy to pick up cheaply now. What I don't like is the way they have dominated the market and I don't like being tied to i-tunes. If I have to be, which was the other point of the enquiry. So, thanks for letting me know that there is other options! I will research further.
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Old 09-01-2008, 09:42
steveOooo
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perhaps if uve never had a ipod and hate itunes, now would be the time to 'suck it and see'

i didnt want an ipod, but after owning a mac for a year, thought the ipod would be much like mac computers - intuitive, easy to use and realiable, which the ipod is, i think its the biggest selling player becasue of this -i got a 30gb ipod 5th gen of the apple refurbished store for £130 a year ago
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Old 09-01-2008, 12:45
andybno1
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I diodn't say I didn't like i-pods - I actually think they're quite elegant and they are quite easy to pick up cheaply now. What I don't like is the way they have dominated the market and I don't like being tied to i-tunes. If I have to be, which was the other point of the enquiry. So, thanks for letting me know that there is other options! I will research further.
well in fairness you said evil land of the iPod and went on to say you hate iTunes, this to me says you dont like the iPod or iTunes.

you are not really tied down to iTunes, you can use winamp, windows media player to manage music with it aswell. iTunes is just made for iPods and since its the same company yeh it's going to get pushed forward to use with iPods.
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Old 09-01-2008, 15:21
violetultra
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well in fairness you said evil land of the iPod and went on to say you hate iTunes, this to me says you dont like the iPod or iTunes.

you are not really tied down to iTunes, you can use winamp, windows media player to manage music with it aswell. iTunes is just made for iPods and since its the same company yeh it's going to get pushed forward to use with iPods.
Cool - that's exactly what needed to know as WMP is my preferred software.

Cheers mate.
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Old 09-01-2008, 15:58
sancheeez
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You can sync to an iPod using WMP?

Are you sure?

I know there is an addon for WinAmp and I know MediaMonkey works but I didn't think WMP did.
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Old 09-01-2008, 16:37
Sananda Maitreya
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You can sync to an iPod using WMP?

Are you sure?

I know there is an addon for WinAmp and I know MediaMonkey works but I didn't think WMP did.
as far as i know, you can't sync an ipod with wmp natively. there is a plug in.

in general i say that the thing is its ipod + itunes; i don't see the point in adapting a program that isn't designed to work with ipod. ipod + itunes is a package deal and if that package deal isn't appealing, i would recommend looking elsewhere.
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Old 09-01-2008, 17:08
violetultra
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as far as i know, you can't sync an ipod with wmp natively. there is a plug in.

in general i say that the thing is its ipod + itunes; i don't see the point in adapting a program that isn't designed to work with ipod. ipod + itunes is a package deal and if that package deal isn't appealing, i would recommend looking elsewhere.
I can see your point, Sananda. It would probably be considerably easier to just bite the bullet and use i-tunes because my research over the last couple of days tells me that buying anything other than i-pod is going to cause me no end of irritation. I just want a nice mp3 player, some sensible software and decent docking/speaker station. Now, is that too much to ask?

I guess I'm just a typical woman! I want it all and a nice pair of shoes to go with it.

Thanks everyone for chiming in.
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Old 09-01-2008, 17:52
Sananda Maitreya
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I can see your point, Sananda. It would probably be considerably easier to just bite the bullet and use i-tunes because my research over the last couple of days tells me that buying anything other than i-pod is going to cause me no end of irritation. I just want a nice mp3 player, some sensible software and decent docking/speaker station. Now, is that too much to ask?

I guess I'm just a typical woman! I want it all and a nice pair of shoes to go with it.

Thanks everyone for chiming in.
why is it you don't like itunes? i have a couple of ipods and an iphone, so i use itunes and i quite like it. mind you, i haven't tried any other similar software (i have macs so it was pretty automatic that i would use itunes).
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Old 09-01-2008, 17:56
sancheeez
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... is its ipod + itunes; i don't see the point in adapting a program that isn't designed to work with ipod.
I do.

iTunes cannot handle proper volume normalisation.

All my MP3's are normalised by MediaMonkey. This inserts a +/- db reading into the ID3 info. iTunes has it's own +10/-10 system.

If any of my normalised MP3's are loaded onto the wifes iPod using iTunes, they don't play back properly. It interprets any +db as +10 and any -db as -10 so when played back on the iPod they are either almost silent or deafeningly loud.

Load them on through MediaMonkey though and all is well.

I also find iTunes slow, cumbersome and unhelpful (it managed to wipe my wifes iPod of music completely when uploading a couple of videos to it but never hinted it was doing so). In my eyes, thats a bad piece of software. Oh, and I don't WANT bloody quicktime on my computer.

Won't be a problem for most I know but it was a pretty major problem for the wife!
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Old 09-01-2008, 18:36
Sananda Maitreya
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I do.

iTunes cannot handle proper volume normalisation.

All my MP3's are normalised by MediaMonkey. This inserts a +/- db reading into the ID3 info. iTunes has it's own +10/-10 system.

If any of my normalised MP3's are loaded onto the wifes iPod using iTunes, they don't play back properly. It interprets any +db as +10 and any -db as -10 so when played back on the iPod they are either almost silent or deafeningly loud.

Load them on through MediaMonkey though and all is well.

I also find iTunes slow, cumbersome and unhelpful (it managed to wipe my wifes iPod of music completely when uploading a couple of videos to it but never hinted it was doing so). In my eyes, thats a bad piece of software. Oh, and I don't WANT bloody quicktime on my computer.

Won't be a problem for most I know but it was a pretty major problem for the wife!
i guess that if you go outside the ipod + itunes ecosystem there will be difficulties such with your mediamonkey adjusted files.

i've been using itunes since around 2003 and, on the whole, haven't had any problems with it. i find it very easy to use. i just import any new cds and it painlessly syncs with my ipod when i connect it. nothing more complicated than that.

the difficulties i've had are these:

at one point it created about 300 duplicate songs out of a library of about 3600 songs,

the sharing of the library with other user accounts doesn't work well (it creates duplicates), and

whereas with my ipod shuffle i can drag and drop songs onto it, with my iphone i can't do that. the iphone doesn't have enough storage to hold my entire collection but itunes doesn't seem to have an easy way to choose the songs i want to go on. i either have to create a playlist for the iphone or check the songs i want to sync (which means that then if i want to play through a whole album on my computer it won't automatically do it without all the songs being checked).
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Old 09-01-2008, 19:04
sancheeez
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i guess that if you go outside the ipod + itunes ecosystem there will be difficulties such with your mediamonkey adjusted files.
Thats the thing. The files aren't actually adjusted. It's just a piece of information stored in the ID3 tag. iTunes simply can't interpret it properly.

The iPod plays them just fine .... it's iTunes interpretation of that one little piece of information that causes the problems.

It's the whole closed system that the iPod uses that I don't like. I prefer the freedom of drag and drop on a UMS device that uses cables that are as generic as possible.

I have more music stored than an iPod can hold (including the new 160gb version ... although she only has a 30gb video one) so she also hits the same problem as as you do with your iPhone.

Still, it's horses for courses and plenty people seem to like the iTunes/iPod model .... I'm just not one of them.

I'd still like a click wheel on my otherwise fantastic player though!
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Old 10-01-2008, 09:13
violetultra
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I do.

iTunes cannot handle proper volume normalisation.

All my MP3's are normalised by MediaMonkey. This inserts a +/- db reading into the ID3 info. iTunes has it's own +10/-10 system.

If any of my normalised MP3's are loaded onto the wifes iPod using iTunes, they don't play back properly. It interprets any +db as +10 and any -db as -10 so when played back on the iPod they are either almost silent or deafeningly loud.

Load them on through MediaMonkey though and all is well.

I also find iTunes slow, cumbersome and unhelpful (it managed to wipe my wifes iPod of music completely when uploading a couple of videos to it but never hinted it was doing so). In my eyes, thats a bad piece of software. Oh, and I don't WANT bloody quicktime on my computer.

Won't be a problem for most I know but it was a pretty major problem for the wife!
Exactly.
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Old 10-01-2008, 11:05
andrewlee2
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In which case, why not just load up Rockbox and get rid of the stock iPod firmware? Problem solved
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Old 10-01-2008, 11:06
iain
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it's all horses for course, but i've never understood why - assuming people have a large enough capacity player to hold their entire library - would want to manually drag and drop rather than just connect and auto sync.

and you can switch off the auto sync in itunes and do it manually anyway.

Iain
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Old 10-01-2008, 11:06
steveOooo
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but quicktime is so widely used?
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