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Any fans of Real Ale out there? |
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#301 |
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Join Date: Jun 2011
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Re: the above post – beat me to it.
![]() I'm all for innovation and variety, but most of these craft beers are simply ways by which the marketing men manage to push the prices up to ridiculous levels to fleece the gullible and the poseurs. Apart from charging nearly a fiver a bottle, the bottles themselves are nearly always less than 500ml, which itself is less than a pint. It is known and accepted that pubs have to account for their running costs in the price of a pint of draught beer, so the price of a 500ml bottled beer should be significantly under the price of a pint in a pub. I was surprised at the price mentioned previously for the bottle of Sam Smith's stout. I'm not a huge fan of their draught bitter, but it has always been on sale for under £2 per pint. I prefer their draught stout, which from what I remember is about £2.20 a pint, although it must be a couple of years since I had one. If you like the more gimmicky beers, I seem to remember that their own version of kriek vastly undercuts the price of the established brand. Most beers do come in 330ml bottles but then again a lot are stronger, the same as a lot of beers being served in 2/3 pints, you don't want a pint of an 11% imperial stout or a 9% double IPA. 330ml bottles isn't a new thing though, things such as bottled lagers have come in 330 ml bottles for years. Why do you keep referring to them as gimmicky? Just because something is different or innovative doesn't make it gimmicky. If it wasn't for craft brewers we'd most certainly not have a resurgence of old styles such as saisons, goses and braggots. Sours are big at the moment and they're one of my favourite styles. How can more beers and more styles ever be a bad thing? Just because something is more expensive doesn't make it overpriced. I feel the same about food. Whenever I've eaten at a Wetherspoons I've always felt ripped off because I've had something totally average and feel that's money wasted, I'd rather pay a little more and have something I really enjoy. I'd rather pay £10 for a thimble of something truely nice that makes me think, that makes me sit up and go "wow, that's good" than pay £2 for a pint of something that's just an average best bitter. The value for money for me is in the experience and the enjoyment. I try to have as many different beers as possible, as I've said my new years resolution is to do another 500 different new beers this year, when I get a delivery and open a bottle I've not had before I get a genuine excitement about trying something new. |
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#302 |
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Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Nailsworth, Gloucestershire
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Who cares what it's called though? Surely all that matters is the taste.
Say a brewery had two beers at a beer festival, we'll call them "Sunny Day" and "Hairy Nutz", I can guarantee the second beer will far outsell the first even if the first is considered a better beer. As for comparing Real Ale and Craft Beer, I drink Real Ale so as the vast majority of these new Craft Beers are keg beers I don't drink them. Offer a cask-conditioned version then I'll give it a go but not a keg beer. |
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#303 |
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Join Date: Jun 2011
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I serve at a Beer Festival every year, I've also been to more than i care to remember, and at a festival the name of a beer can have a great impact on its popularity.
Say a brewery had two beers at a beer festival, we'll call them "Sunny Day" and "Hairy Nutz", I can guarantee the second beer will far outsell the first even if the first is considered a better beer. As for comparing Real Ale and Craft Beer, I drink Real Ale so as the vast majority of these new Craft Beers are keg beers I don't drink them. Offer a cask-conditioned version then I'll give it a go but not a keg beer. If you're a casual drinker then you may pick a beer for it's name but the first thing I look at is the description and the brewery. Fair enough if you want to only drink cask but I do think that's a bit of an outdated and snobby attitude. I'll say it again but good beer is good beer, all that should matter is the taste. I really don't understand why some people seem to see it as a competition between real ale and craft beer and that you must only like one or the other, it's ridiculous. |
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#304 |
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Join Date: Mar 2013
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That's just a massive generalisation though.......
Quote:
I'd rather pay £10 for a thimble of something truely nice that makes me think than pay £2 for a pint of something that's just an average best bitter.
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#305 |
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Join Date: Mar 2007
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I bought two excellent 500ml bottles of 'craft' beer from Lidl this afternoon. They have a range of five or six types, all on sale at £1.25. It shows what a rip-off some of the others are. Made by Jennings - not my favourite brewer but excellent at that price.
Hatherwood Purple Panther Hatherwood Green Gecko As someone else pointed out, hardly any bottled beers count as real ales anyway, but I could drink these. Both 5% as well. |
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#306 |
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Join Date: Jun 2011
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Quote:
Followed by:
![]() ![]() The thing is that some things that are cheap are nice and some expensive things aren't, my main point through all of this is that beer is beer and that it's irrelevant if it's classed as real ale or craft beer. I enjoy real ale and I enjoy craft beer. I'm starting to think I'm the only person in the world that does as it seems like I'm committing some kind of unspeakable act by saying both genres of beer can have good representatives. A lot of craft beer isn't expensive and a lot don't even have names, never mind "pretentious" ones. The Kernel and Brew By Numbers for a start simply call their beers "Pale Ale - Nelson Sauvin" or whatever other accurate description of the type of beer and hops used is relevant. I find the previous posters ridiculous, they're slagging craft beer off whilst admitting they've not bothered trying it because the names put them off. Seriously? Then you've got the guy who has an irrational hatred of Brewdog and thus hates craft beer. Madness! If a beer tastes good to you then that's all that matters, why bother about how much it costs or what it's classed as? Just enjoy beer, stop getting hung up on if it's real ale, craft beer, keg beer, cask beer etc. Beer is good, embrace it, open your minds and enjoy it all be it real ale or craft beer. I do! |
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#307 |
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Join Date: Jun 2011
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A few highlights from the weekend.
Brew By Numbers - 08¦05 Oyster Stout - Nice and smooth and rich, simple but good. Kernal - Pale Ale Nelson Sauvin - A straight forward single hop pale with Nelson Sauvin hops. Buxton - Trolltunga - An amazing sour gooseberry IPA, yet another amazing beer by Buxton Brewery. Mad Hatter - Schwarzwalder Kirschtorte - A big 10% baltic porter, creamy, chocolate and cherry, exactly as the name says! Mad Hatter - Mad Yeti - A lovely but quite complex honey and mustard braggot. Siren Craft - Calypso - A fabulous Berliner Weiss. |
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#308 |
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Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Nailsworth, Gloucestershire
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I understand that a name can be important but the issue I had is that the other posters were using "pretentious names" as a stick to beat craft beer with and as a reason not to drink it which is quite frankly ridiculous.
If you're a casual drinker then you may pick a beer for it's name but the first thing I look at is the description and the brewery. Fair enough if you want to only drink cask but I do think that's a bit of an outdated and snobby attitude. I'll say it again but good beer is good beer, all that should matter is the taste. I really don't understand why some people seem to see it as a competition between real ale and craft beer and that you must only like one or the other, it's ridiculous. It has nothing to do with seeing it as "a competition between real ale and craft beer and that you must only like one or the other", it is simply my personal preference and it certainly isn't a "snobby attitude". |
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#309 |
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Join Date: Jun 2011
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Why is it? Because Keg beer is served under pressure it tends to be fizzy, i find drinking such beer unappealing as I don't particularly enjoy the bloated feeling I quickly get when my stomach is full of CO2. Real ale isn't served under pressure and it is naturally lightly carbonated through the brewing process.
It has nothing to do with seeing it as "a competition between real ale and craft beer and that you must only like one or the other", it is simply my personal preference and it certainly isn't a "snobby attitude". I wasn't particularly saying that you were viewing it as a competition but a lot of people seem to and I think it's a bit of an odd attitude, especially when it comes from people who have freely admitted they've never tried craft beer, like some in this thread. As I've said, to me beer is beer and I'll happily judge each beer on it's taste regardless of it being labelled real ale or craft and regardless of if it's cask, keg, bottled, canned or whatever. |
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#310 |
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Join Date: Jun 2003
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When does a craft beer no longer become a craft beer?
Stuff like Punk IPA and Brooklyn are now widely available, I often thought one description of craft was that they are 'niche' but these products may have started out that way but are now finding their way into chain pubs and 'normal' pubs as opposed to just dedicated craft bars. Again, I agree with Jambo's general view that beer is beer and should be judged on merit rather than by definition. I really like Punk IPA no matter what, but it does intrigue me that it is very easy to find nowadays, so has it moved from craft to mainstream now? |
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#311 |
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Join Date: Jun 2011
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Quote:
When does a craft beer no longer become a craft beer?
Stuff like Punk IPA and Brooklyn are now widely available, I often thought one description of craft was that they are 'niche' but these products may have started out that way but are now finding their way into chain pubs and 'normal' pubs as opposed to just dedicated craft bars. Again, I agree with Jambo's general view that beer is beer and should be judged on merit rather than by definition. I really like Punk IPA no matter what, but it does intrigue me that it is very easy to find nowadays, so has it moved from craft to mainstream now? The description "Craft beer" seems to have that many different little definitions by different people it's a bit silly. There was a fuss before xmas because Camden Town Brewery has been sold to InBev. The brewery itself swears that there's going to be no change in philosophy, staff or in the actual beers that they brew (as you'd expect, they're not going to admit if they're going to change but I'd give them the benefit of the doubt until I saw evidence of change) and that they'll just use the money to expand and increase their output. As soon as this was announced Brewdog announced that they'd no longer be selling Camden Town beers in their bars as the sale to InBev goes against everything that craft beer is about. To me though, if it was a beer that I liked and if the beer is still exactly the same then I'd still drink it. There's a little irony in Brewdog being against the "big corporations" when you look at how big they've actually become, there's around 30 bars in the UK now and more opening every week it seems and they've even got bars in places as far flung as Japan, Brazil and Finland. I couldn't really care to be honest as long as the beer is nice and I've had some lovely Brewdog stuff over the last year (Hop Fiction and Born To Die in particular), I like their bars too as they have some great guest breweries on such as Stone, Siren, Mikeller and To Øl. |
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#312 |
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Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Nailsworth, Gloucestershire
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Quote:
When does a craft beer no longer become a craft beer?
Stuff like Punk IPA and Brooklyn are now widely available, I often thought one description of craft was that they are 'niche' but these products may have started out that way but are now finding their way into chain pubs and 'normal' pubs as opposed to just dedicated craft bars. Again, I agree with Jambo's general view that beer is beer and should be judged on merit rather than by definition. I really like Punk IPA no matter what, but it does intrigue me that it is very easy to find nowadays, so has it moved from craft to mainstream now? The problem is the phrase "Craft Beer" has now become a meaningless marketing term and, more often than not, like "artisan" is used to justify pushing the price through the roof. You now have the likes of Guinness muscling in on the act, hardly a prime example of a small brewer lovingly hand-crafting small batches of beer. Their advertising budget for their two "Craft" porters is probably considerably lager than the turnover of the vast majority of small breweries in the UK combined. |
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#313 |
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Join Date: Nov 2009
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Why is it? Because Keg beer is served under pressure it tends to be fizzy, i find drinking such beer unappealing as I don't particularly enjoy the bloated feeling I quickly get when my stomach is full of CO2. Real ale isn't served under pressure and it is naturally lightly carbonated through the brewing process.
It has nothing to do with seeing it as "a competition between real ale and craft beer and that you must only like one or the other", it is simply my personal preference and it certainly isn't a "snobby attitude". As for “craft” beer in general, well what a tossy name. It is beer. And we still have a long way to go to catch up with Belgium. |
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#314 |
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Join Date: Jun 2011
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Cask ale is not a good experience because of what you describe. My preference is for bottled conditioned then cask then pasteurised bottled then keg larger. I am not going to drink keg ale for any amount of money, it is a horrible experience and ale should not be served that way. If keg could be served differently then I would be up for it. I am a complete snob about this and l look down my nose at someone who goes to the bar and ignores cask and orders keg.
As for “craft” beer in general, well what a tossy name. It is beer. And we still have a long way to go to catch up with Belgium. |
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#315 |
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Join Date: Nov 2003
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Cask ale is not a good experience because of what you describe. My preference is for bottled conditioned then cask then pasteurised bottled then keg larger. I am not going to drink keg ale for any amount of money, it is a horrible experience and ale should not be served that way. If keg could be served differently then I would be up for it. I am a complete snob about this and l look down my nose at someone who goes to the bar and ignores cask and orders keg.
As for “craft” beer in general, well what a tossy name. It is beer. And we still have a long way to go to catch up with Belgium. Carbonation is a byproduct of the brewing process. When yeast turns sugar to alcohol a byproduct is carbon dioxide. That is part of the reason why you get a "head" on a pint when it is poured. Real Ale should never be "flat". |
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#316 |
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Which is what most "craft beer" is (or can conditioned). Not all keg is crap and fizzy though, I do generally drink bottles and cans but I often have something on tap (which will be keg) in my local Brewdog and it's never been fizzy and crap. The Stone Go To IPA was bloody amazing.
All of the local breweries near to me sell bottled versions of their beers, not in cans. |
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#317 |
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I've never heard of "can conditioned" beer, but then it would never occur to me to drink a can of beer.
All of the local breweries near to me sell bottled versions of their beers, not in cans. |
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#318 |
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Quite a lot of breweries are now canning their beers. There's a lot of thought that it actually keeps the beer better as it's a better seal and there's absolutely no light pollution. Off the top of my head Beavertown, Four Pure, Westbrook, Oskar Blues, Magic Rock, Moor Beer and Ballast Point all do cans. To be quite honest though I've never been able to tell the difference. Historically I've heard people say things like they get a metallic taste from cans but I think that's either psychological or the taste from drinking directly from a can and your lips touching it. Cans are lined so no metal makes contact with the liquid and it should all be poured out anyway.
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#319 |
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Freeminer Brewery in The Forest Of Dean invested in their own bottling plant several years ago so pretty much all of the local breweries here have their beer bottled by them. it is probably more profitable for them than the brewery itself.
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#320 |
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Join Date: Mar 2007
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Real Ale should never be "flat".
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#321 |
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Join Date: Dec 2014
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Back in the days of the genuine, original Ruddles County, you would complain to the landlord if it had a head on it.
If it tastes "flat" it's been on sale too long and should be returned as undrinkable. |
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#322 |
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Join Date: Jun 2011
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Had a bottle of Ilkley Westwood Stout at weekend. A white chocolate stout, it actually looks like a pale ale but tastes like a stout with a white chocolate hit, it was bloody lovely.
I'm off to a beer festival on Saturday too which I'm looking forward to, they've over a hundred beers on so there should be some good stuff so quite excited for that. I'm almost as excited that the other day I got hold of a can of Magic Rock Grand Marnier barrel aged Bearded Lady which is meant to be incredibly good. I'm saving it for Friday night and looking forward to it immensely, I hope it doesn't disappoint! |
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#323 |
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Join Date: Mar 2007
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That's wrong too. A good cask ale should be slightly carbonated (think a small tingle on the tongue, no more) with a rich white head which leaves lacing down the side of the glass as you drink it.
If it tastes "flat" it's been on sale too long and should be returned as undrinkable. |
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#324 |
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Join Date: Jun 2011
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Had a bottle of Ilkley Westwood Stout at weekend. A white chocolate stout, it actually looks like a pale ale but tastes like a stout with a white chocolate hit, it was bloody lovely.
I'm off to a beer festival on Saturday too which I'm looking forward to, they've over a hundred beers on so there should be some good stuff so quite excited for that. I'm almost as excited that the other day I got hold of a can of Magic Rock Grand Marnier barrel aged Bearded Lady which is meant to be incredibly good. I'm saving it for Friday night and looking forward to it immensely, I hope it doesn't disappoint! The festival was good too, managed to try quite a few different ones including an interesting gin-inspired saison. |
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#325 |
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Join Date: Aug 2007
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Yeah, Real Ale is quite popular these days. A lot of microbreweries keep popping up.
My favourite breweries are the Wantsum Brewery and the Old Dairy Brewery both from Kent. They seem to have a good selection of beers - I don't think that I have had a duff one from them(no Simpsons' pun intended). The Wanstum Brewery even makes a Pilsner now. Also, things like "the Green Hop fortnight" make the real ales interesting. That happens in September time. You tend to get some interesting beers then. |
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