Well in 1969 they were talking about landing on Mars in 1985 and setting up a moon base in 1989. They were envisaging launching 12 Saturn V's in the summer of 1989 in order to establish the base.

Somewhere it all went very wrong. As you say the lack of a race changed everything.

just watched a program about humans moving to live on another planet similar to earth. Im not sure I could be bothered........

Given that we don't know of any planets similar to Earth, that would involve a multi-generation quest that would probably end in failure.

I don't think I could be bothered either!

Indeed, HenryGarten, and that is due to the decision by the Soviets to go with the lower power kerosene/liquid oxygen fuel/oxidant mix for the N1 because they had not been able to fully and confidently master the more powerful liquid hydrogen (much lower temperatures required) fuel storage issue. Hence the need for a large number of engines of modest thrust.

The aircraft engine designer, Nikolai Kuznetsov, was responsible for this strategy having been commissioned by the legendary Sergei Korolev. Korolev had first approached rocket engine designer Valentin Glushko to design the N1 engines but Glushsko wanted to use easily storable and powerful propellants like dimethyl hydrazine (fuel) to be mixed with the oxidant nitrogen tetroxide (c.f. the USA's Titan series of launchers). These chemicals also have the advantage that they are hypergolic - they ignite upon contact so no specialist ignition system needed - just pumps.

However, Korolev was having none of this in view of the 1960 Nedelin disaster when a military rocket using storable propellants blew up on the Baikonour launchpad killing 165 people including military top dog Marshal Mistrofan Nedelin. The Soviets therefore went with kerosene and liquid oxygen and the rest is history.

Had they gone with Glushko's ideas they would certainly have had a more powerful launcher with fewer engine chambers (so potentially more reliable - less plumbing, valves, etc) but it was not to be I am afraid.

A few days ago, I heard on the BBC's Science in Action on the World Service that the European Space Agency and Roskosmos, the Russian space agency, were making progress on a design for the next generation shuttle to take astronauts to the International Space Station.

This subject was featured about a year ago here at http://findarticles.com/p/articles/m...1/ai_n17137414. However, I have been unable to find out anything more about the design of said cooperative shuttle. I assume it would be like the earlier Hermes proposal on stuck on top of either an Ariane 5 or a Soyuz launcher. If anyone else has more up-to-date information, including artists' impressions, etc. then I would be most interested. Thanks.

Just a quick heads-up (pun intended ) about the solar eclipse on Friday morning (1st Aug)

Totality will begin at the far North of Canada - then the far North of Greenland - cross the Arctic Ocean, North of Svalbard - across the Barents Sea, then sweep across Russia, Mongolia, and China.

But just because totality will miss the UK by a long way, doesn't mean we won't see anything.
We will still be able to see a partial eclipse, with the Moon covering part of the Sun, a bit like a cookie with a bite taken out of it.
Depending where you are, will govern how big that 'bite' is.
Obviously, the further North you are (and therefore, nearer to the path of totality) the bigger the chunk of Sun will be covered by the Moon.
44% coverage for the far Northern Scottish islands
34% Glasgow - 32% Newcastle - 27% Manchester
Down to 21/22% for Bristol and London
And about 20% along the South coast.

Times also vary, depending on location - here's the times for London...all times are BST
First Contact (When the Moon first appears to touch the Sun) - 9:33am
Maximum coverage - 10:18am
Last contact (Moon clears the Sun's disk) - 11:04am
Further North you are. times will be a few minutes earlier.
(First Contact 9:27am from Newcastle)

If you have some eclipse glasses, or proper filter material, worth taking a look.

Most importantly...
DO NOT LOOK AT THE SUN THROUGH ANY OPTICAL EQUIPMENT UNLESS YOU HAVE PROPER FILTRATION OVER THE FRONT OF THE EQUIPMENT.

Always filter the Sun before the light enters the telescope or binoculars.
With a small telescope - projecting the image is a far safer method.

I'll be taking pictures throughout (assuming the clouds keep away) through a telescope with a solar white-light filter - will post them if they're worth looking at.



And then on the 16th Aug - there's a partial lunar eclipse.
(Eclipses often follow each other like that)
It happens when the Moon is quite low, so even with only 80% of the Moon being blotted out b the darkest part of the Earth's shadow, there's still a good chance of the classic red/orange eclipsed Moon 'glow'

Apparently water (ice) has just been found on Mars.

The best site for eclipses is the Nasa site at http://eclipse.gsfc.nasa.gov/eclipse.html

Interesting looking docu on the National Geoprahic Channel tonight.........in their Megastructures series.......about the construction of the new Hadron Collider at cern which comes on line next month............

I missed it but it'll probably be repeated every day for the next 10 years so might try and catch it one night.........


edit.......it's on again at midnight tonight...........

Just posted this thread - http://www.digitalspy.co.uk/forums/s...d.php?t=861111 - about sending messages into space. Has anyone heard about this?

I'd love to be able to send a message into space! Only question is - I don't know what my message would be...

Europe's successful Mars Express planetary orbiter has just sent back some pictures of Mars' inner potato-shaped inner moon Phobos which races round Mars once every 7.65 Earth hours (the outer moon being Deimos which goes around at a more leisurely 1¼ Earth days). The pictures can be seen here at http://www.esa.int/esaCP/SEM5H48N9JF_index_0.html.

This week also saw the confirmation that Nasa's Phoenix lander has identified the presence of water, in the form of water ice, on the surface of Mars. The successful mission will now be extended until the end of September. More on this story can be seen here at http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/7536123.stm.

SpaceX's Falcon 1 is probably launching today, keep checking their website during tonight. It might be past midnight though.

It now appears that the soil round the Phoenix lander contains the a rather surprising ingredient, namely perchorate compounds. These are distinctly oxidising compounds and they may not necessarily the compounds that are most conducive to life forms. More on the story can be found here http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5j...0gdRAD92CGT5G0.

As a background note, a typical perchlorate compound would be something like potassium perchlorate, KClO4, so it is very oxygen rich hence its willingness to react with reductants. It will be interesting to see what theories are developed to account for the presence of this compound and perhaps it is indicative of an extreme environment.

Perchlorates are nasty explosives!!

Indeed, HenryGarten. These are not substances to lightly play around with!

The other week Richard Branson publicly launched the carrier vehicle for his Virgin Galactic tourist space venture (http://www.virgingalactic.com). It will apparently cost something like £100k to get a brief ride into space and experience weightlessness.

That carrier vehicle is fairly conventional but the actual space vehicle that will take people into space was not shown (still under development). I expect it will strongly resemble the X-Prize winning SpaceShipOne but will be a bit larger.

The thing is, going into space is still relatively risky. Well over a dozen astronauts (mostly American) have died as a result of space-based accidents and hundreds (mostly Soviet) have died in launchpad incidents. Anyone who goes into space as a tourist ought to weigh up the odds albeit relatively remote ones.

The propellant system for the Virgin Galactic space vehicle will probably involve heated hydroxyl-terminated polybutadiene rubber as the fuel and the oxidant will likely be liquid nitrous oxide (better known as laughing gas). It will be equivalent to a solid fuel system that, once ignited, cannot be turned off - a bit like the Space Shuttle's solid fuel boosters. On return to Earth, the vehicle has a lifting body shape and effectively glides back to the surface (it reminds me of the old lifting body prototypes like the X-20 Dynasoar, M2-F2 and HL-10 which never gave rise to any production space vehicles).

I really hope this venture succeeds and that things go well for each tourist mission but I suspect that any one fatal incident will effectively close space tourism down for a long time.

Hybrid engines as used in amateur rocketry.....

Unfortunately making your own solid fuels is now illegal in this country. As if terrorists are likely to say "best not do that, it's illegal". So as always the only people affected are those with a legitimate use in mind

Another book recommedation for you. Into That Silent Sea - Trailblazers of the Space Era 1961-1965.

It's an excellent read.

NASA's Greatest Missions starts next Sunday night on Discovery.

Thanks for the info. I've been on the lookout for this since I saw a trailer a week or two ago, looks a good programme

"Carrying the Fire - An Astronaut's Journeys" by Michael Collins (Apollo 11 crew) is excellent. "Riding Rockets" - Mike Mullane (Shuttle Astronaut) is also pretty good. I am new to this thread, so sorry if I am repeating anything.

Good shout. I've read both too and agree with you. Welcome to the thread!

Welcome.

Another book recommedation for you. In the Shadow of the Moon - A Challenging Journey to Tranquility 1965-1969.

It's an excellent read.

Tomorrow 3 Taikanauts take off on the next adventure in the Chinese space program. Part of their mission will be the first Chinese spacewalk.

Details here.