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Ipod Jan Software Update price !!!
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Shaney
19-01-2008
TheSoulBrother, I agree with what you're saying to a certain extent, but you're forgetting:

- computers installed with XP a few months before Vista was released came with a free Vista upgrade voucher.
- when the original Xbox recieved a price cut a few months after release, early adopters were offered 2 games and a controller to compensate
- Nintendo offered a game or two when they cut the price of the Nintendo 64 if you called them up to complain (same with Sony)
- when the price of the Apple iPhone was reduced in the U.S. earlier this year, Apple offered $100 gift vouchers to early adopters

Steve Jobs said it best in his apology letter:

Quote:
“Third, even though we are making the right decision to lower the price of iPhone, and even though the technology road is bumpy, we need to do a better job taking care of our early iPhone customers as we aggressively go after new ones with a lower price. Our early customers trusted us, and we must live up to that trust with our actions in moments like these.”

For the iPod touch, that can be read as: "we need to do a better job taking care of our early iPod touch customers as we aggressively go after new ones with more features for the same price."

A gesture such as offering a brief discount on the £12 apps for a couple of weeks would have deflected some of the anger that is floating around after the announcement.

Also, you said:

Quote:
“Now in the old days of the iPod, you would have to buy a new one to get the latest features!”

If you remember, the second revision of the 5th generation iPod (with video) had a feature update which included a brighter screen, longer battery life, games, gapless playback and the search feature - this update was given to all early 5G iPod owners as well for free via a firmware upgrade.
Daveoc64
19-01-2008
Originally Posted by Shaney:
“If you remember, the second revision of the 5th generation iPod (with video) had a feature update which included a brighter screen, longer battery life, games, gapless playback and the search feature - this update was given to all early 5G iPod owners as well for free via a firmware upgrade.”

Yep.

A 11 month old product got 90% the same features as the brand new one.

Apple backported quite a lot of features in 2004/2005.
TheSoulBrother
19-01-2008
Originally Posted by Daveoc64:
“That's a flawed analogy, if you bought a PC with Windows XP installed on it after October 26th 2006 then you were entitled to get Windows Vista for just the cost of shipping.”

I said 4 months prior to Vista. October 26th - January 30 does not = 4 months.

Analogy in tact.

Quote:
“
I think most people's objection stems from these points:

1) The iPod touch is less like the iPhone, it's supposed to be more like an iPod. iPods have simple updates which include new features - it's happened several times before. All for free. Therefore when people bought an iPod touch they expected some continuity - see point 3.
”

iPod Touch has had simple updates that included new features. The ability to add new apps via the SDK/iTunes will be one of them. Editable calendars was another in 1.1.1. Another simple update, 1.1.3 is completely free for all Touch owners. This is a separate software pack of 5 new apps. Hardly an update or a tweak. Its a fairly large expansion of functionality.

Quote:
“2) Apple identified that there was an accounting issue, so they compensated for that with iPhone and Apple TV - why not with iPod touch? Easy - to get more money from people.”

I'd love to see your evidence.

Quote:
“3) The iPod touch is only a few months old, people didn't expect to be paying for new apps already. Perhaps some form of large OS upgrade (perhaps a year down the line), but not just a few apps that are free on the older iPhone. I certainly wouldn't expect to be paying for an upgrade four months after the product was released.”

You aren't expected to do anything. The choice is there whether you want to add new applications to your Touch. Apple are providing you with the option to greatly expand the feature set. Or you can decline and get the regular updates. 1.1.3 includes a multi-touch keyboard, customisable home screen and the ability to create web clips.

Software does not develop itself. The apps are not "free" on the iPhone as they are part of the cost which you pay for it in the first place.

Quote:
“4) People can buy an iPod touch today and it wont include these apps, they will see them on Apple.com and all over the internet but they might not realise they cost extra. With the old iPod software pricing model, that wouldn't have mattered.
”

If you buy a Touch today, you get the apps for free. If for any reason you pick up an old box that does not contain the apps, take it back to the store.

Quote:
“
5) In terms of "heft" Apple said that with the 802.11n enabler it wanted to make the cost trivial as it was an accounting issue. The only logical conclusion is that Apple sees the iPod touch as a cash cow, sure it's £12.99 now - but what about the next upgrade and the next one? That attitude concerns many iPod touch owners.”

No, they see the iPod Touch as running an operating system capable of installing more apps, providing more functionality. Apple have a grand total of very few consumer apps that they give away for free. Why should this change with the Touch?

Touch = Mac
Mobile OSX = Mac OSX
£12 app pack = iLife 08 (bundled with new Macs, sold to older owners)

That is the only sensible analogy you can make with this. Its a software pack. Not merely a firmware upgrade on existing features and bug fixes. You can bet your life that the iTunes store will be selling lots of apps come February/March. Do people expect them all to be free? If so, can I ask why?


Quote:
“- computers installed with XP a few months before Vista was released came with a free Vista upgrade voucher.
- when the original Xbox recieved a price cut a few months after release, early adopters were offered 2 games and a controller to compensate
- Nintendo offered a game or two when they cut the price of the Nintendo 64 if you called them up to complain (same with Sony)
- when the price of the Apple iPhone was reduced in the U.S. earlier this year, Apple offered $100 gift vouchers to early adopters”

You have to look at these in context.

2, 3 and 4 were price drops. Not extra applications.


Quote:
“If you remember, the second revision of the 5th generation iPod (with video) had a feature update which included a brighter screen, longer battery life, games, gapless playback and the search feature - this update was given to all early 5G iPod owners as well for free via a firmware upgrade.”

This does not stand up at all. Touch owners still get firmware updates! Just this latest one gave customisable home screen, web clips, multitouch keyboard, lyrics. 1.1.2 gave read/write calendar capability. Improved performance. International keyboards.

Battery life, gapless playback etc are firmware updates that are akin to the kind of updates that Touch users get for free.

This is a software pack. 5th Generation iPod owners still had to pay £4.99 for each game they downloaded. The upgrade just gave owners the ability to play games. It didn't actually give them any games! They still had to be bought in iTunes. Just like this situation

And yes, the iPhone price was lowered aggressively in a very short amount of time. That I could understand. A $200 price drop so soon is no joke. I would have been pissed too.

However, adding new applications 4 months after a product has been launched to make it more competitive is so far removed from the iPhone situation. I guess its all on how we perceive this stuff, but as a consumer you expect vendors to bring out new versions, improve existing ones etc etc all the time.

Now there is no doubt that this is harming Apple's rep, cos people are pissed. But the moaning culture in this particular instance is pretty pathetic IMO, and I dont mind saying so. Especially over a lousy £12. And if you see £12 as a hefty amount then why are you buying a £200/269 MP3 player.

Its all well and good saying Apple should give the apps away for free, but at what point does it stop? If they launched more apps another 3 months down the line, should you get those for free too? And so on. Apple decided to introduce these 4 months in, and I think that is adequate time. They could have handled it better by utilising a grace period (i.e. those registered > 1 Jan get it free), but IMO if you bought it before then you really can't moan that much about it. Its £12.
madzo2005
19-01-2008
Ive tried purchasing the update a few times now:

Ive upgraded to the new itunes 7.6 upgraded the iPod Touch firmware to 1.1.3

I click on buy software update, I see the warning about not appearing in the cart, it then asks to enter my password and goes to billing info, confirm it and then it goes back to the update page no download no installation nothing

Ive checked my purchase history and it certainly hasnt been purchased
damndirtyape
20-01-2008
Originally Posted by TheSoulBrother:
“£12 is a hefty premium? On what planet?”

Erm...Earth?!

Originally Posted by TheSoulBrother:
“I personally do not see what the problem is. ”

That's cool. Pay your £12 'no-problemo'.

Originally Posted by TheSoulBrother:
“If you bought a laptop 4 months before Vista came out, should you be given Vista for free when it is released? Because that becomes the default OS on the same laptop you bought just 4 months earlier. Its "free" for new buyers. ”

Well, firstly, I'd uninstall any form of Vista and put XP on there - that's just good sense

Secondly, Vista's an operating system - not a set of applications as offered by Apple. It'd be a more appropriate analogy to use an application suite such as "Office".

Thirdly, Vista was announced a "bajillion" years before release; Apple 'sprung' the launch of the applications on people 'day-and-date' with the apps set release. If I wanted Vista, I could plan and finance for it, or even hold off buying a new laptop until I knew Vista would be included within my computer bundle. It's not really an exact analogy, is it?!

Originally Posted by TheSoulBrother:
“Or lets say you buy a PS3 on launch date at HMV. Just 2 months later, HMV are selling it for the same price but with a free game bundled in, worth £40. Are you entitled to the free game? ”

HMV are a set of outlet chains - they are free to create 'mix-and-match' bundles as-and-when they please. Sony are the ones who own the hardware and control what you get (or don't get) with the machine.

Again, your analogy is slightly more "apples and oranges" than you'd care to suggest.

For example, let's say I were to find out that Sony had decided to offer a £40 downloadable game to existing PS3 users, but said they'd include the download free to all new buyers. After just two months of ownership, I'd be pretty peeved... Again, personally, I'd have held off buying for 8 weeks if I'd known there'd be a free game on the horizon!

Originally Posted by TheSoulBrother:
“Gadgets like the iPod by nature become cheaper to produce for Apple the longer its been on the market. Some manufacturers would just reduce the price to reflect that. Apple likes to keep pricepoints the same and instead adds features in order to do so. That's all we have here.

Now in the old days of the iPod, you would have to buy a new one to get the latest features! At least you now have the ability to get the new apps for a "hefty" 12 quid.

And finally, they are worth every penny. Mail and Maps alone are. For a "hefty' £12, your MP3 player becomes more of a PDA.”

I don't deny (and never have done) the fact that these applications are useful, and certainly people are free to pick and choose what they buy. I think the applications pack is overpriced (just as I feel some of the 5th Gen gaming stuff is overpriced) and I don't intent to buy this bundle.

£12 is pretty hefty in context, especially when you know that you can achieve similar functionality using Safari and free WebApps.
andybno1
21-01-2008
I think the best idea for this would of been to take the price of the touch up by 12.99 to cover the cost of the apps and then I dont think there would of been as big of a problem with the fee as people (inc myself) have made.

the basis of the uproar is early adopters have to pay while new touch users get it all included for same price as normal touch no extra fees
chocolate_boy
21-01-2008
Originally Posted by andybno1:
“couldn't see why not, it worked with the 1.1.1 and 1.1.2 apps”

Who's gonna upload them onto a fileshare site then? Let's give it a whirl!
chocolate_boy
21-01-2008
I think a lot of you may be missing an obvious point here.

They may be charging for the update to test the software in the real world. They will shortly be offering apps for iPhone/iPod Touch downloadable from iTunes for a cost. This to me seems like they wanted to test the purchase & install process in the real world.

The reason they charged a bit more than pennies is people would say "well it's only 99p, why are you bothering?".
Sananda Maitreya
21-01-2008
Originally Posted by andybno1:
“I think the best idea for this would of been to take the price of the touch up by 12.99 to cover the cost of the apps and then I dont think there would of been as big of a problem with the fee as people (inc myself) have made.

the basis of the uproar is early adopters have to pay while new touch users get it all included for same price as normal touch no extra fees”

since when has the price of technology risen?

the basis of the uproar is absurd. clearly the new ipod touches have been improved with these apps at the same price. this is perfectly in line with general expectations. ipods are habitually improved with more storage but the price remains the same. in that case, they can't offer an easy hardware upgrade to existing owners. but in the present case they can offer a software applications upgrade. that's better than the usual situation with ipods. this time ipod touch owners can still have the latest specification at a very modest cost.
andybno1
21-01-2008
but its not a hardware update with the ipods with 1.1.3 its just software based
TheSoulBrother
21-01-2008
Originally Posted by andybno1:
“but its not a hardware update with the ipods with 1.1.3 its just software based”

Did you read Sananda's post?
infiniteloop
23-01-2008
Originally Posted by simonb65:
“Another nice touch by Apple is selling it to UK consumers at £12.99 as opposed to $19.99 for the USA.

Works out at $1.53 : £1

Companies never miss a chance of screwing the good old British public.

As for the software update, I don't think I will bother. Seems expensive for what on the face of it appear to be shortcut bottons for stuff you can access through Safari anyway.”

Have you not heard of V.A.T.? £12.99 less VAT is £10.22.

The US price does not include sales tax. That makes the UK price ONE POUND different.
ShaunIOW
23-01-2008
Just a quick point to those defending Apple over the cost of the apps - do you realise that Apple are charging for apps that are free on other platforms? Google Maps and Mail is free for Windows Mobile 6 smartphones and devices..
infiniteloop
23-01-2008
So what? I wouldn't have a Windows Mobile 6 "smartphone" if it was free, let alone any of its apps.
ShaunIOW
23-01-2008
Originally Posted by infiniteloop:
“So what? I wouldn't have a Windows Mobile 6 "smartphone" if it was free, let alone any of its apps.”

Well that's your loss but I was only using WM6 as an example - to quote Google:

"Google Maps works with the following devices:
Most Java-enabled (J2ME) mobile phones.
Palm devices with Palm OS 5 and above.
All color BlackBerry devices.
Windows Mobile devices with Windows Mobile 2003, 5.0 and above.
Symbian Series 60 3rd edition devices. "

So seeing as it's avaiable 'free' on numerous platforms, it's weird how people can defend a company for charging for something thats free everywhere else.
infiniteloop
23-01-2008
Let's say it's free and Mail is £12.99. Should they break them up to be £2 each?

How much is a YouTube client for Windows Mobile 6?

ah, that's a shame, it doesn't have one!
ShaunIOW
23-01-2008
Originally Posted by infiniteloop:
“Let's say it's free and Mail is £12.99. Should they break them up to be £2 each?

How much is a YouTube client for Windows Mobile 6?

ah, that's a shame, it doesn't have one!”

Well mail is free too, can't comment about a youtube app as I never use it anyway, but as it has internet explorer and ftp I can't see any reason why video couldn't be uploaded.

Nb. Actually just did a quick search and video can be uploaded to youtube using MMS and youtube is useable without needing an app downloaded which probably explains why there isn't one for WM6.

As to your question - yes selling apps individually would be a start - but even better would be letting Apple owners have them free like users of other products can get them.
infiniteloop
23-01-2008
They (Apple) can't do it for free, see other threads passim. The accounting for iPod touch is different to that of iPhone or Apple TV...there is not necessarily any ongoing income from subscriptions for iPods, so their accounting is different and they are not allowed by law to add new things to already-sold iPods. Google giving away apps by themselves is entirely up to them.
Sananda Maitreya
23-01-2008
Originally Posted by ShaunIOW:
“Just a quick point to those defending Apple over the cost of the apps - do you realise that Apple are charging for apps that are free on other platforms? Google Maps and Mail is free for Windows Mobile 6 smartphones and devices..”

Originally Posted by ShaunIOW:
“Well that's your loss but I was only using WM6 as an example - to quote Google:

"Google Maps works with the following devices:
Most Java-enabled (J2ME) mobile phones.
Palm devices with Palm OS 5 and above.
All color BlackBerry devices.
Windows Mobile devices with Windows Mobile 2003, 5.0 and above.
Symbian Series 60 3rd edition devices. "

So seeing as it's avaiable 'free' on numerous platforms, it's weird how people can defend a company for charging for something thats free everywhere else.”


you just don't know what you're talking about.

first, you are incorrect in stating that apple is charging for apps that are free on other platforms. the google app is not the same as the app to which you are referring. apple work with google and another company called skyhook but they write the front end app. for instance the app to which you refer does not use skyhook wifi positioning system but only cell tower positioning. how, dear god, do you think the google app you're talking about would (if put on ipod touch) manage to locate since ipod touch does not have a cellular radio?

second mail.app (and it's mobile variant) are not available on any os other than osx. at any price.

third, all your examples are smartphones or pdas. is ipod touch a smartphone? was it ever sold as a pda?
Simpsons_Fan_16
23-01-2008
I have to admit, the update is really good! I love the Google Maps and Weather feature. But £12.99 is quite a lot to charge. Should have been more like £4.99 but ideally FREE like other people have been saying!
Adam D
30-01-2008
Well after having the update about a week i can deffinatley say it was worth the money in my opinion.

For the maps feature, Alot easier than using maps on maps.google.com

and for the mail client alone.

I no longer have my email open with webmail for the 3 accounts, I just have my ipod and it checks every 15mins when turned on and displays how many new email i have if i have any.

Great for reading them and viewing picture attachments.

I havnt even looked into the Notes yet or the weather.

Also the ability to add bookmarks to the home page is great, i can jsut click on it and it takes me straight here, Same for other websites i use alot and meebo for when i want to use IM.

I have also moved the icons around to suit my needs and placed the 'itunes' and 'settings' on a seperate homescreen as i dont use them as much as the other items.

As you can tell i am very pleased with this update even though it came at a price and new users get it included.

but never mindd.
andybno1
31-01-2008
overall not wowed by the new feature in maps, "locate me" never works, I am liking being able to use yahoo on my touch .............. viva la jailbreak lol
soulboy77
31-01-2008
Originally Posted by madzo2005:
“Ive tried purchasing the update a few times now:

Ive upgraded to the new itunes 7.6 upgraded the iPod Touch firmware to 1.1.3

I click on buy software update, I see the warning about not appearing in the cart, it then asks to enter my password and goes to billing info, confirm it and then it goes back to the update page no download no installation nothing

Ive checked my purchase history and it certainly hasnt been purchased”

There isn't a download. The new apps are included in the 1.1.3 update. The £12.99 payment just activates them (the icons then appear on the Touch's screen). Did you have your Touch connected at the time?
aaronon
31-01-2008
Billing information confirmation?! I got that error repeatedly. I had to use a different card.

Apple told me to log in to their website and enter my details on it (payment address etc) . . .and then to make sure they are the same details iTunes have.
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